# Junkies, faggots and Africans - who cares if they die? pluralgravity doesn't... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449 "2002-07-11T17:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/41 "2002-07-12T03:55:16Z")
I hate to break up the pile-on, but I just have to say that Esprix is lucky to be such a long-standing respected SDMB member, otherwise I think he’d get a lot more shit for saying stuff like this: > [@](#): > > I, for one, don’t see a problem with spending money so that people will have the freedom of sexual expression. Irresponsibility is irresponsibility, I agree - for everyone’s sake, we should all practice safe sex, monogamous sex, or no sex. But curing this disease (heck, all STD’s for that matter) would, IMHO, be a positive thing for freedom of expression. Jesus fuck, I’m sick of hearing the term freedom of expression applied to EVERYTHING. Nobody suggested a law banning homo sluts, so why the Hell are you playing the freedom card? It sounds silly. Oh, and I think that the real goal is to cure AIDS so people won’t die as much, not so they can fuck without worrying about it. The nazi comparison was weak too. However, the OP was a total dick and should go fuck himself so you still win. AND… For fuck’s sake, can we please give the rolleyes smiley a rest. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/42 "2002-07-12T04:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*I don’t understand this attack at all. pluralgravity said nothing that the title says. He cleared up his seeming insensitivity towards Africans by stating that Africans should try to solve their problem themselves. What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with it is the notion that it’s “the African’s problem.” It’s a _worldwide_ problem. That Africa is harder hit at the moment doesn’t mean working towards a solution is only good for Africans. > [@](#): > > Maybe Africans can look at the disease in a totally innovative way and discover an approach that the West could never think of if we just let them and stop acting like the know-it-alls we’re not. Far as I know, nobody has suggested excluding African researchers. Quite the contrary. But it’s a fact that most African nations don’t have a good deal of the technical expertise and monetary and technological resources the West has. Consequently there is more activity here, than there, trying to find a solution to this _worldwide pandemic_. > [@](#): > > And his comments about Western victims deserving it were obviously just borne out of ignorance of how it’s spread (he had the misconception that you have to have a risky sex life to catch the disease when that’s not true, you just have to come into contact with someone who does). Isn’t this board about fighting ignorance? Why, yes, it is. Hence the corrections to his/her miscomprehensions. There is also a moral dimension to this argument, however. Putting aside the fact that there are very good _selfish_ reasons from a western point of view for trying to ameliorate the problems in Africa, there is the separate the moral issue of whether it is okay to let others suffer, even if their suffering doesn’t impact you directly. One can feel free to hold the position that outside suffering is none of your business. However I can similarly feel free to criticize such a callous point of view and consider it, from my own perspective, as morally debased. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/43 "2002-07-12T04:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pluralgravity \* > \*\*Oh dear, when you disagree with the caring, inclusive, tolerant elite they turn into a pack of ravenous poodles, howling for blood. > Even my ‘sweet’ compatriot **Francesca** starts using bad words. > **Heloise** I am not a troll. I discovered SDMD recently and thought it had many smart, kind and witty people whose company I would I would enjoy. I have started two other threads and was touched by the interesting and informative replies. > \ \*\* The Straight Dope does have many smart, kind and witty people. There are, however, some subjects that are taboo here, and some opinions/points-of-view that a poster who doesn’t want a pile-on doesn’t express. In my posting career here, I have bit my metaphorical tongue many times in the interest of not appearing like an un-pc bigot. You may not choose to do that here, and you will get piled-on when your opinions are not popular. It is your choice. (Go for the gusto, son - people rage against you for your unpopular opinions, but you know how people love to be outraged.) ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/44 "2002-07-12T05:53:50Z")
"And your home-page is [http://jowysiren.sexsexworld.com/](http://jowysiren.sexsexworld.com/) I’m so confused. " HEHEHHEHEHEH!! [Sexsexworld.com](http://Sexsexworld.com) is actually an E/N humor site. It’s not a porn site as the title suggests. My own site, despite having male/male relations fan stories, is also not a porn site! 😃 “Whoohoo! Unhealthy retention of seed!” Or egg in my case! EHAHAAHHA!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/45 "2002-07-12T06:49:08Z")
You don’t even _ovulate?_ Man, _that’s_ ascetic! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/46 "2002-07-12T07:19:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kamandi \* > **…That’s what this thread is all about, Timmy…** And that’s why I said “Thank you”; I’m not ALWAYS sarcastic…Timmy ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/47 "2002-07-12T08:14:18Z")
**jarbabyj** (I love that name), I agree. I’m an “uptight” happily married man who brings any “incidental horniness” home to Mrs. Smegma, who knows I adore and lust for her (after 14 years horny matrimony and 2 Smeglets). And, despite the opinions of other horndogs, I must say that monogamy is the way for me! I don’t think I’m a “peanut brain,” though other SDMBers may disagree, but killer! It’s nice to see others who don’t find horniness and monogamy to be mutually exclusive.🙂 **Larry** and **Jurahael** , I firmly believe (intuitively and instinctively, you know) that Demon Jism Buildup[sup]tm[/sup] can only be cured by relentless masturbation.😃 To **plural** : Your direct descendant was either killed by Legolas, or you are a cruel, cold-hearted asshole. Either way, fine. I’ve met and defeated many of both in my 36 years. Too bad you’re not like the bugs and rodents I take care of in my job (pest control), which I happen to be very good at. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/48 "2002-07-12T08:27:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*he’s been smoking Dirty Tina. \*\* And at a guess you’ve been reading popbitch, Twisticus. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/49 "2002-07-12T11:13:15Z")
Anyone who says that he’s against developing an HIV vaccine because he wants to save money is either a liar or an idiot. Treating someone who’s infected with HIV is expensive. The combination of medications that they have to take can cost a thousand dollars a month. Who do you think ultimately pays for that? As expensive as that is, treating someone with full-blown AIDS is much worse. Just treating one episode of pneumonia (which will almost inevitably happen to an HIV patient who isn’t taking the expensive drugs) could cost thousands of dollars. Multiply that by the number of people who are infected in the U.S. alone and you’re talking some serious money, which comes either from the taxpayers or from health insurance premiums. A vaccine would be orders of magnitude less expensive. And in my opinion the morality issue is non-existant. Do you really want to sit there and let someone die a slow, painful, undignified death because he slept with another man ten years ago? If you think homosexuality is that wrong, you’ve got a serious problem. So, basically, anyone who’s against developing an HIV vaccine can’t claim to be a conservative, because they’re advocating wasting billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money, and can’t claim to be a Christian because they’re advocating torturing people to death for commiting a victimless sin several years ago. They could claim to be a troll, though. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/50 "2002-07-12T11:15:27Z")
What I don’t understand is why AIDS brings out the “let’s not treat it because I disapprove of the ways you get it” people. Christ – should we not look for ways to combat diabetes, heart disease, lung cancer, or any other illness for which personal choices are a factor? I don’t see how we need to validate treatment based on the morality or responsibility of the person suffering. If a person comes into the ER with a gunshot wound, do you drill him on if he’s a gang member or not? No, you plug up the bleeding and try to save his life. Standing by and watching people die because you don’t care about people who make certain ‘lifestyle’ choices or because they live abroad is a lot more immoral than any way that HIV is trasmitted. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/51 "2002-07-12T11:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Christ – should we not look for ways to combat diabetes, heart disease, lung cancer, or any other illness for which personal choices are a factor? Yeah, but a lot of people get those diseases who aren’t those goddamn “homo sluts” or Africans, you know, so we should care a ton more about that. I’d like some of these people to meet a gay African–I think their heads would explode. 😃 This excerise in hyperbole brought to you by being at work at 7:30 in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/52 "2002-07-12T13:30:44Z")
I do believe everyone who wants to wipe out AIDS were equated with the Vast Liberal Conspiracy™. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/53 "2002-07-12T16:28:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Ooner** _ > > … I just have to say that Esprix is lucky to be such a long-standing respected SDMB member, otherwise I think he’d get a lot more shit for saying stuff like this: Oh, yes - I’ve _never_ been raked over the coals, have I, Fellow Clique[sup]TM[/sup] members? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Jesus fuck, I’m sick of hearing the term freedom of expression applied to EVERYTHING. Nobody suggested a law banning homo sluts, so why the Hell are you playing the freedom card? It sounds silly. Hmmm, “let the homo sluts die” is an interesting opinion, to which I responded with this social aside. And if anyone has any experience with sexual expression, I daresay it’s the gay community. > [@](#): > > Oh, and I think that the real goal is to cure AIDS so people won’t die as much, not so they can fuck without worrying about it. I agree, but being able to have sex without fearing for your life would be, IMHO, a happy side effect. > [@](#): > > The nazi comparison was weak too. Granted, as was already pointed out. I couldn’t find a comparable similie at the time, but others have since provided it. > [@](#): > > However, the OP was a total dick and should go fuck himself so you still win. Yay. 🙂 > [@](#): > > AND… For fuck’s sake, can we please give the rolleyes smiley a rest. Yeesh. Must… resist… urge… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/54 "2002-07-12T16:43:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **pizzabrat** _ > > pluralgravity said nothing that the title says. He cleared up his seeming insensitivity towards Africans by stating that Africans should try to solve their problem themselves. What’s wrong with that? We are better equipped to help them solve this crisis, and, just in case you missed it the first time it was said, _AIDS is a global problem_. It is in everyone’s best interests - including yours, mine and ours - to cure this disease. > [@](#): > > It’s been over 20 years and we’re nowhere near a cure, just an expensive way to stay alive longer and spread it to others. So you’re agreeing that people with HIV/AIDS should just go ahead and die? I’m appalled. > [@](#): > > Maybe Africans can look at the disease in a totally innovative way and discover an approach that the West could never think of if we just let them and stop acting like the know-it-alls we’re not. Who says the African scientific and medical community _isn’t_ working on a solution - just like us? I dunno, maybe we’re acting in - gasp! - _cooperation_ with them? > [@](#): > > And his comments about Western victims deserving it were obviously just borne out of ignorance of how it’s spread… _Willful_ ignorance, if you ask me, and all the Straight Dope in the world isn’t going to cure that. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/55 "2002-07-12T16:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I can see why the OP in that thread is touchy. Putting aside whatever the poster’s motivation was, the issue is rather sensitive. It is hard for people to divorce the morality issue from the causality issue. When somebody says that most cases of AIDS are contracted due to **behaviours that could have been easily abstained from** , somebody immediately reacts as if those behaviours had been morally attacked. Easily abstained from behaviours like heroin addiction? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![pluralgravity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@pluralgravity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluralgravity)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/56 "2002-07-12T18:51:57Z")
Thanks **pizzabrat**. Its Friday night, the pub is open, see the rest of you guys down there? No? ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/57 "2002-07-12T19:40:31Z")
Pluralgravity, You better not risk it. Going to a pub is akin to living in Africa, being a homosexual or engaging in wild crazy monkey sex\*. I mean, alcohol (like sex) is basically an evil thing, you could get drunk and engage in aids inducing behavior! You don’t want to be in the group that deserves to die because of risky behavior, do you? Sitting at home and staring at the wall is clearly the better alternative here. \*‘crazy monkey sex’ is not sex WITH monkeys, minds out of the gutter people. 😃 (Please don’t take what I say above seriously, I am teasing. But there were alot of ‘holier than thous’ talking about all the “bad things people do to get aids, therefore LETS NOT HELP THEM OUT”. Well, just pointing out that stuff happens and ANYONE can get this disease, it’s just less likely if you play it safe.) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/58 "2002-07-12T20:33:51Z")
(originally posted by Esprix) > [@](#): > > Willful ignorance, if you ask me, and all the Straight Dope in the world isn’t going to cure that. Do you mean the same willfull ignorance that leads people to be little unprotected fuck-monkeys? Engaging in ‘HIV dangerous’ activities is akin to running blindfolded across a busy freeway. Sure, you don’t intend to get hit by a car, but don’t fucking act all suprised and ask for help when you do. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/59 "2002-07-12T20:58:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* Engaging in ‘HIV dangerous’ activities is akin to running blindfolded across a busy freeway. Sure, you don’t intend to get hit by a car, but don’t fucking act all suprised and ask for help when you do. \*\* Come now. Surely you see that living, the very simple act of living, involves numerous risks? Sure, we increase these risks by drinking or smoking or having unprotected sex or driving while it’s raining or taking a vacation in the wilderness or bungy jumping or wearing a ‘greens’ party shirt to a NRA meeting… I mean, by saying ‘Sure, you don’t intend to get hit by a car, but don’t fucking act all suprised and ask for help when you do’, who CAN we help then?? You’re going to think helping a mother of five who had a car accident is a good thing maybe…but what if others don’t want to help her because she’s a known bad driver who forgot her glasses. Well, that one bad thing totally negates the fact that she’s a fellow human being and needs to be pulled from the car? It’s just too arrogant if we try to use our own personal judgements as to who we’re willing to help. We are all humans on this rock together. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449/60 "2002-07-12T21:27:02Z")
Yes, I’m sure every young person who catches an STD - who, by everyone’s account here, ought to be fully and completely aware of the risks they’re taking, and should therefore act completely responsibly when it comes to sex, because we all remember how _easy_ it was to talk about things like protection when we were 18, 19, 20 years old - should be left to their own foolish devices. After all, willful ignorance, right? Look, no one is arguing that the bareback community (i.e., those fully informed adults who willfully disregard the facts for a variety of reasons) has some serious problems. Hell, the last time I went to get my HIV test there was a small bunch of “AIDS deniers” protesting in front of the center, chanting the latest mantra, “HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, AIDS drugs do.” :rolleyes: (Which only proves that even when presented with the facts, some people can still convince themselves that there’s a great vast conspiracy out there, but that’s another topic entirely.) But to sweepingly condemn _every_ gay person, drug users and African for either their behavior or country’s lack of medical expertise is absolutely horrid. Yes, we should all practice safe sex. Yes, some people don’t. And yes, a cure needs to be found for _everyone_. Esprix [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junkies-faggots-and-africans-who-cares-if-they-die-pluralgravity-doesnt/118449.md?page=4)