# juris doctor
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 8, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486 "2004-01-08T19:49:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@seaworthy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seaworthy)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/1 "2004-01-08T19:49:51Z")
Is there such a thing as a juris doctor? I can’t find it in my dictionaries, but I’ve seen several local lawyers with J.D. after their names. People I’ve asked say it stands for juris doctor, you know, a doctor of law, because lawyers were pissed off that they didn’t get a fancy title like medical doctors. So, is this an actual title, or did some local attorneys decide to make themselves sound cool?
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/2 "2004-01-08T19:59:13Z")
JD is the first degree you get out of law school, and it does stand for juris doctor. However, the reasons have nothing to do with lawyers being pissed–“juris doctor” is Latin for “teacher of law”, and someone with a JD can be a law school professor.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/3 "2004-01-08T20:02:09Z")
[Previous thread on this subject.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=218755)
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### Author:  [@2planka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2planka)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/4 "2004-01-08T20:04:04Z")
Maybe someone can provide a cite for this, but my understanding is that the “degree” terminology dates back to medieval times and the trades.
A bachelor was something of a neophyte, a Master was the next rung up, and a Doctor was an expert.
The Law School Admissions Council - a data collection and testing service in the USA that all accredited law schools in the country use and with which all prospective American law students must register and be tested - throws around the J.D. term, and each law school I’ve researched awards J.D.'s as terminal degrees. Some offer Ph. D.'s as well, but in addition to the J.D.
The short of it: J.D. is the terminal degree for those who wish to practice law, as far as I can tell.
In case you’re interested:
[http://www.lsac.org/LSAC.asp?url=lsac/about-lsac.asp](http://www.lsac.org/LSAC.asp?url=lsac/about-lsac.asp)
[http://www.law.suffolk.edu/academic/conc.html#guide](http://www.law.suffolk.edu/academic/conc.html#guide)
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/5 "2004-01-08T20:41:50Z")
I went to law school, I tell you!
Now turn your head to the side and cough!
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/6 "2004-01-08T21:15:02Z")
Actually there are several degrees offered by law schools. The three most common:
JD is the standard degree that a lawyer graduates with, usually after three years of law school (and a traditional four-year degree as a prerequisite). Some schools call this degree an LLB (though it is less common today).
LLM is a Master of Law. This is a specialist degree. Many tax and corporate attorneys have this. The LLM has a subject matter, e.g., LLM in taxation, LLM in securities law, etc.
JSD is a Doctor of the Science of Law (it gets translated into a couple of different titles, actually, but this is my favorite). This is the pinnacle of law school degrees.
Here is a link to the Yale Law School Acmissions department, which is a good example of the variety of degrees offered.
[http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Admissions/admis-index.htm](http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Admissions/admis-index.htm)
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/7 "2004-01-08T21:32:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by seaworthy \*
> \*\*So, is this an actual title, or did some local attorneys decide to make themselves sound cool? \*\*
If we wanted to sound cool, we would still be using the title, “General,” as was common during the Scopes monkey trial.
[example](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/day7.htm)
😉
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/8 "2004-01-08T21:38:00Z")
Oops. It was actually “Colonel.” The person referred to as “General” was an actual General who was also a lawyer. Sorry for the misinformation.
Here’s an excerpt
Mr. McKenzie–Pass him to you, Colonel.
Questions by Mr. Darrow:
Q–What is your business?
A–I am a minister.
Q–Whereabouts?
A–I live in Rhea County.
Q–Where do you preach?
A–I preach over the county in the rural sections.
Q–You mean you haven’t any regular church?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/9 "2004-01-08T21:52:44Z")
J.S.D. is more often S.J.D. or LL.D.
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### Author:  [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/10 "2004-01-08T23:34:26Z")
So what’s the LL stand for anyway?
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/11 "2004-01-08T23:49:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by audilover \*
> \*\*So what’s the LL stand for anyway? \*\*
See the link provided by Walloon.
You may not find Juris Doctor in your dictionary, because it actually stands for Doctor of Jurisprudence.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/12 "2004-01-08T23:50:32Z")
Legum Magister, Master of Laws. In Latin abbrieviations a double letter indicates plurals. LL means “laws.”
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/13 "2004-01-09T02:29:40Z")
Why William Jennings Bryant was called “colonel”:
> [@](#):
>
> During the Spanish-American War . . . there was no draft, and prominent individuals — often with no military experience to draw on — raised regiments to supplement the Army. William Jennings Bryant, the man who ran against President William McKinley, raised the 3rd Nebraska Regiment for the war. Only D Company of the unit saw combat, but Bryant went by “colonel” for the rest of his life.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/14 "2004-01-09T15:01:45Z")
1. In the corrected quotation that I posted, it is Clarence Darrow who is called Colonel. He was certainly not a military colonel.
2. I picked up on this by listening to a book on tape (hey I drive a lot) that contained the transcript of the trial. The narrator explained that at that time, it was customary for lawyers to be called Colonel. It was probably a regional thing, too. But that is where I got the idea.
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### Author:  [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/15 "2004-01-09T15:30:44Z")
FWIW, in Germany lawyers are referred to as “Doctor”, since they do have doctoral degrees.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/16 "2004-01-09T15:37:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Kizarvexius \*
> \*\*FWIW, in Germany lawyers are referred to as “Doctor”, since they do have doctoral degrees. \*\*
And in Japanese, Sensei–teacher. I once had a Japanase client in my office. He saw my JD degree on the wall, and began bowing and praising me over and over again because of my “doctor” degree. Of course, he also presented me with some fabricated financial documents, in order to bail his company out of hot water. My point: He was very impressed by the doctor part.
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### Author:  [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juris-doctor/223486/17 "2004-01-10T21:36:27Z")
It appears that in some circles saying “Colonel” used to be a cute way of extending respect beyond simply saying “sir”. This is a plot point in the old film **Ruggles of Red Gap** , wherein people in a small town out west get the mistaken impression that Charles Laughton is a distinguished retired officer because his employer affectionately calls him “Colonel” from time-to-time. In fact, Laughton is a butler.
An old friend of mine lived in Germany for a time, and knew an attorney with the last name of “Doktor”. He was Doctor Doktor, only he wasn’t a doctor…