# Jury deadlocks for rape trial against Navy officer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 17, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590 "2018-04-17T17:46:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/1 "2018-04-17T17:46:26Z")
> **[Jury Deadlocks on All Counts Against Former Navy Commander Accused of Rape](https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/jury-reaches-verdict-on-navy-commander-attempted-rape-allegations/44387/)** > > A mistrial has been declared in the retrial of a former U.S. Navy commander accused of rape. > **[Second mistrial in ex-Navy commander’s attempted rape trial](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/04/17/second-mistrial-in-ex-navy-commanders-attempted-rape-trial/)** > > A deadlocked jury led to a second mistrial Monday in the case of a former Navy commander charged with the attempted rape of a junior officer in San Diego. In short, a junior officer accused a senior officer of trying to rape her. There’s a video that shows she told him 90 (that’s NINE ZERO!!!) times to stop trying to have sex with her, and to leave, only finally leaving after her screams alerted a neighbor to call the police and he tried to flee. And the jury deadlocked, with 2 jurors holding out on the attempted rape charge (ten thought he was guilty). IMO this is a prime example of rape culture – that the onus is far more on the potential victim to avoid rape than the aggressor. She didn’t just say no, she SCREAMED it, dozens of times, and it was captured on video, and that _still_ wasn’t enough for 2 of the jurors. Hard to legislate problems like this. This is just deeply ingrained misogyny within our culture. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/2 "2018-04-17T18:10:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is just deeply ingrained misogyny within our culture. There is no indication in the news articles that the jurors not voting as you would wish are male. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/3 "2018-04-17T18:13:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There is no indication in the news articles that the jurors not voting as you would wish are male. Their gender is irrelevant. Misogyny in culture and society can affect women just as much as men. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/4 "2018-04-17T18:53:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …that the onus is far more on the potential victim to avoid rape than the aggressor. Some nonsense about “innocent until proven guilty”. So, fuck yeah it’s on the potential victim to prove her case. Do you have a better legal standard to share with the group? And, yes, being proactive about one’s safety is a good thing. Now, that said: I wasn’t at the trial, etc. but a jury split 10/2 does reek of skullduggery of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/5 "2018-04-17T18:57:53Z")
Requiring the prosecution to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to 12 of out 12 jurors is a high burden. By design. I’m sorry if the alleged victim doesn’t feel like she got “justice” in this case, but that happens, and it certainly better than convicting a person of a crime they might not have committed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/6 "2018-04-17T19:04:01Z")
Just to be clear, I don’t believe that the OP is criticizing the institutional rules of the justice system that require guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, a unanimous jury, etc. I see it as his criticizing us as people and the society we live in that such evidence isn’t enough to persuade 12 jurors. I don’t know what all the evidence is, so perhaps there’s something the jury saw that justifies such doubt. But if it really is just “why didn’t she fight him harder/louder/earlier/more successfully so she must have kind of consented” then that is very good evidence that we as a people are fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/7 "2018-04-17T19:11:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just to be clear, I don’t believe that the OP is criticizing the institutional rules of the justice system that require guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, a unanimous jury, etc. > > I see it as his criticizing us as people and the society we live in that such evidence isn’t enough to persuade 12 jurors. > > I don’t know what all the evidence is, so perhaps there’s something the jury saw that justifies such doubt. > > But if it really is just “why didn’t she fight him harder/louder/earlier/more successfully so she must have kind of consented” then that is very good evidence that we as a people are fucked up. Agreed. It’s hard to second guess a jury without sitting in the courtroom and hearing everything they heard. A lot goes on in a There’s a fine line between “not objecting enough” and “I reasonably thought she consented.” Maybe not a “fine line,” but a blurry one. On reading the second article, (quoted below) I think I’d probably vote to convict the guy. But, again, the trial probably lasted a week or more and there was a lot of evidence we don’t know about. > [@](#): > > Jurors heard video from Neuhart’s cellphone in which she screams at him to leave and tells him some 90 times to stop trying to have sex with her. > > Neuhart testified that the woman consented to going home and having sex with him. He said he recorded part of their encounter in case the woman later alleged rape. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/8 "2018-04-17T19:15:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Neuhart testified that the woman consented to going home and having sex with him. He said he recorded part of their encounter in case the woman later alleged rape. THAT’S educational, and something I think a lot of people miss. “Hey, let’s shag” is neutralized by some variant of “Know what, let’s NOT shag.” Cry foul or tease or whatever, and that’s certainly a conversation to have at another time. Meantime, there’s to be no shagging. The time to turn the voice recorder on, if you’re that willing to do it despite being paranoid, is immediately before and throughout the carnal activities. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/9 "2018-04-17T19:28:36Z")
Neither article really describes the encounter very well. Did the defendant have the woman pinned down to the couch, or was he sitting across the room saying “let’s do it”? I don’t question her denial (or withdrawal) of consent, but how pushy and aggressive does he have to be to meet the standard of attempted rape? It’s odd that it was his cell phone that recorded things. And one article says that jurors heard only the audio, so it doesn’t establish what actions were taken. And the two articles linked by the OP blatantly disagree on whether the defendant testified at the second trial. Sloppy reporting from one of them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-deadlocks-for-rape-trial-against-navy-officer/812590/10 "2018-04-17T22:19:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just to be clear, I don’t believe that the OP is criticizing the institutional rules of the justice system that require guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, a unanimous jury, etc. > > I see it as his criticizing us as people and the society we live in that such evidence isn’t enough to persuade 12 jurors. > > I don’t know what all the evidence is, so perhaps there’s something the jury saw that justifies such doubt. > > But if it really is just “why didn’t she fight him harder/louder/earlier/more successfully so she must have kind of consented” then that is very good evidence that we as a people are fucked up. Yes, this is what I’m criticizing.