# Jury Duty is Lame (rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 6, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028 "2021-10-06T21:29:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/41 "2021-10-07T15:28:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You’ll be happy to hear that Federal Courts (in civil cases) have done away with the theory of “alternate juror.” That is interesting. The trial I was empaneled on was a criminal trial, and I doubt anything could be done about the number of jurors since criminal trials require a unanimous verdict. I doubt Prosecutors will assent to having to have extras that all have to be convinced of guilt. I believe civil trials are majority vote, so the extras don’t carry the same baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/42 "2021-10-07T15:30:06Z")
My mom had much different “luck” than me.She served on a sequestered-jury murder case when I was about 8. I remember the deputies escorting her home to get clothes and stuff. She also kept getting called for Federal court in Milwaukee, despite being over 60, not comfortable driving in the city, and having no credit card for expenses. I guess they wanted her so badly they fronted her cash for expenses. Go figure! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/43 "2021-10-07T15:38:06Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > The trial I was empaneled on was a criminal trial, and I doubt anything could be done about the number of jurors since criminal trials require a unanimous verdict. I doubt Prosecutors will assent to having to have extras that all have to be convinced of guilt. > I believe civil trials are majority vote, so the extras don’t carry the same baggage. Agree that they can’t monkey around with the number of jurors in criminal trials. But as far as civil trials, interesting to note that in Federal Court, even civil juries need to be unanimous. Plaintiffs therefore want the smallest possible panel. (easier to convince 6 of 6 than 8 out of 8). In contrast, Washington State, for example, requires 10 out of 12 or 5 out of 6 jurors to agree. In some states it’s 9 out of 12. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/44 "2021-10-07T16:11:49Z")
Never been called. I wouldn’t mind being called just for the experience. I received a questionnaire from the county court a couple of years ago. They didn’t include a SASE, so I’m guessing it never got back to them. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/45 "2021-10-07T16:40:24Z")
I get called about every two years on average, but I don’t usually have to go in, and rarely get on the jury. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/46 "2021-10-07T16:44:31Z")
I had jury duty for the first time a couple of years ago (gotten a letter before then, but my number was not in the “must go in” range). I actually kind of enjoyed it. I mean, there were a lot of long, boring stretches where nothing was happening or we were just sitting around waiting for something, but I found the whole process to be interesting. Met some cool people in the jury, and got me out of work for an entire week. The case itself was pretty mundane, just a B&E and the state had a really weak case, but still I had a good time. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/47 "2021-10-07T16:55:39Z")
I get frequent notices (maybe every other year or so) and have been called in three times over the years. All three times I got placed on a jury, which according to some places me in the class of probable simpleton (‘only boring idiots ever get selected’) 🤪. In one the litigants in a real estate deal gone bad were playing chicken in Federal court and settled the day after jury selection (it was a juicy sounding one too as such things go, lots of double-dealing allegations with a treacherous sexual affair mixed in - the judge seemed either genuinely excited about airing all the dirty laundry or he was putting subtle pressure on them to settle before it all came out). In another Federal case involving white collar crime in biotech it went 7 and half weeks including deliberations. The third was a more standard industrial job injury suit in a lower court that went about 4 days. I enjoyed all of it 🙂. The process was interesting and I never got bored. However I have the huge advantage of a job that continued to pay me while I was serving. Takes a lot of pressure off. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/48 "2021-10-07T19:12:34Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > When I had jury duty, the jury minder people told us that pleas often roll in when the defendant sees the jury in real life. It makes the process more concrete for them and taking a plea becomes more appealing. I kind of get it… Here’s a bunch of strangers who took time out of their lives to judge you. This is really happening! My first trial was a civil case, where a woman was suing BART for being injured in the elevator. The BART attorney asked the jury candidates all kinds of questions, her attorney didn’t ask anything. I got selected, but when I came back the next morning it turned out they settled. I strongly suspected that BART gave her an offer, which her lawyer advised her to take, but she thought that if she got a jury like her she could get more money. She didn’t get a jury like her and agreed to settle. Most of the cases I got called for were murder trials where they had huge jury pools. Luckily they got 14 people before they ever called me to be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/49 "2021-10-07T19:17:03Z")
I usually get a jury summons every couple of years. The last one was early this year, before vaccinations were available. That earned them a hearty “Fuck you!” and I ignored it. Never heard back, so it is likely I wasn’t needed. The time before that I made it to voir dere before I was the first one dismissed because of my occupation. Debate coaches make lawyers nervous for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/50 "2021-10-07T19:29:16Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > When I had jury duty, the jury minder people told us that pleas often roll in when the defendant sees the jury in real life. I think that was likely. For example, I was asked if I had any inherent reason to disbelieve a police officer’s testimony. I said no, it depends on what I think of their credibility. I think the defense was really hoping to get people that would ignore the police statements. But I think they were out of peremptory challenges, and obviously they aren’t going to get me dismissed for cause on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/51 "2021-10-07T21:25:26Z")
In England we no longer have juries for civil litigation at all, except libel (and not often even then) and the grand jury ceased to operate around 1870 for most purposes. Some charges are triable at the magistrates court, some automatically go to the crown court for jury trial, and some can be tried at either, at the defendant’s choice. I’ve never been called in sixty years. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/52 "2021-10-07T23:30:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I got selected, but when I came back the next morning it turned out they settled. I strongly suspected that BART gave her an offer, which her lawyer advised her to take, but she thought that if she got a jury like her she could get more money. She didn’t get a jury like her and agreed to settle. Or maybe BART gave her a higher offer when they saw how confident her side was. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/53 "2021-10-07T23:50:35Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@sachertorte](#): > > > > When I had jury duty, the jury minder people told us that pleas often roll in when the defendant sees the jury in real life. > > I think that was likely. For example, I was asked if I had any inherent reason to disbelieve a police officer’s testimony. I said no, it depends on what I think of their credibility. I think the defense was really hoping to get people that would ignore the police statements. But I think they were out of peremptory challenges, and obviously they aren’t going to get me dismissed for cause on that basis. My very first jury duty, when I was a graduate student, consisted of the pool of potential jurors being seated in the courtroom (including in the jury box) and a series of defendants being brought in. Each case went exactly the same: the charges would be read, the attorneys would go up to the bench, then back to their seats, then the judge would announce the plea deal, ask the defendant if they agreed to this, and then announce that a date for sentencing would be set. Lather, rinse, repeat. As a bored student, I was disappointed in the process, but that’s the only time I’ve been a part of that tactic, so I’m not sure how common it is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/54 "2021-10-08T01:43:44Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Or maybe BART gave her a higher offer when they saw how confident her side was. Not likely. Her attorney was noticeably uninterested in the proceedings, while the attorney for BART was an eager beaver. He exuded “going to trial is going to waste your money and my time.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/55 "2021-10-08T16:24:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’d be interested in knowing how common jury duty is outside the US and Canada Haven’t had jury trials in South Africa since 1969 ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/56 "2021-10-11T04:02:48Z")
I was called for jury duty once about 40 years ago, the defense lawyer asked my occupation, I said “Civil Servant” and was dismissed. Ontario currently sends out 700,000 jury questionnaires annually (for a total population of ~14 million), but I’ve never gotten one, nor has my wife. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/57 "2021-10-12T12:44:56Z")
Some of the stories I’ve heard about judges being outright abusive to jurors… “lame” would be a relatively wonderful outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/58 "2021-10-12T15:07:11Z")
Like some others I am baffled as to what the selection process is. I vote. I have a driver’s license. I’m on every database they use. When I was in my 20s I was sent notices multiple times to my home of record. I was either out of state for school or out of the country for the military. Once I was sent notice for grand jury. The second the form was sent back I got a call saying because I was a cop I would be taken off the grand jury and put on the petit jury list. There was too much of a chance I would have to recuse myself from too many cases. There used to be a law excusing certain professions from jury duty but they did away with that years ago. I never got a notice for the petit jury. The last jury notice I got was about 15 years ago. It was from the county I used to live in sent to the address I currently resided in a different county. I sent it back with a note to read the address. I didn’t hear anything back. I do believe it is everyone’s civic duty. I don’t like seeing people try to weasel out of it when they have no good reason. On the other hand I’ve been in courtrooms a lot and I know how incredibly boring they are. If I was on a jury I would be afraid I would fall asleep. The chances of me being sat for a criminal trial are for all practical purposes zero. There is a chance I could be picked for a civil trial. > [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > I don’t think I personally know anyone who’s served on a jury. But in the US it seems to be very commonplace. > > I’m not an expert on Canadian law, but I do know that a lot of things that would be jury trials in the U.S. are judge trials in Canada. There are big differences from state to state here. In New Jersey there are no jury trials for anything that is heard at municipal court. There are only jury trials at superior (county) court. So basically jury trials are for felonies. Any misdemeanors or traffic violations are heard by a judge only. It sounds weird to me when I hear someone mention a jury trial for DUI or driving while suspended. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/59 "2021-10-13T00:31:01Z")
The closest I have gotten to serving on a jury is being called into a “juror pool,” where they were selecting for several trials (criminal and civil, I think – it’s been a number of years). I sat in a courtroom during voir dire, waiting for my number to be called to be selected. By the end of the day I had not been, and the next day was told I need not come back. That was in a large suburban county. When I first moved to where I live now, in a less populated area, I was summoned to jury duty at the county seat, over sixty miles away. The irony was there is a courthouse in the town I live in; I asked if I could just do jury duty there. The reason I could not, that I was given at the time, was “too great an probability of conflict,” i.e. I had a better-than-average chance of knowing the defendant. Never mind the fact that I could name five people in my entire town by name…the courthouse’s jurisdiction covered four other towns over a large area. Nowadays, they just send me jury summons at my local courthouse. I haven’t had to go yet. Being a paralegal, I would be fascinated to participate. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028/60 "2021-10-13T17:45:15Z")
And jury duty is done for me. That was real quick. I was home before lunch. The judge was really nice and presented herself as being very appreciative that we showed up. They showed us a video. The video emphasized that jury selection (at least in MA) is random, so some people may be called multiple times while others not called at all. Then we had a break (this was only an hour in), but it all made sense as they explained that they are planning the cases and stuff, so since they know we wouldn’t be needed right away, we were free to go outside in the nice weather. Also COVID, so keeping us in a little room as little as possible was a nice gesture. Then we came back and sat for a little over an hour. Then we went into the courtroom where the judge thanked us again and dismissed us. Only stressful thing was that I realized I haven’t driven on a highway in a very long time. I’m not used to driving fast. Then the pike backed up and I was like, “Yay!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-is-lame-rant/952028.md?page=4)