# Jury duty selection- is it really fair for a court to do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 4, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757 "2016-08-04T17:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/21 "2016-08-05T16:14:34Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > BTW if you want to end “entitlement” and that “anxiety” maybe pay the jurors more than a few sheckles a day, my state does not require employers to pay salary for jury duty so theres also an economic hardship for many people! Like I said, you get paid in freedom. This is your ONLY civic duty. Military service, national service, even voting- these are not mandatory. Can it be a pain in the butt? Sure. Is it the great intrusion you are making it out to be? No. …also, it’s “shekels.” ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/22 "2016-08-05T16:23:08Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I travel on business quite a bit. A few years ago I was out of the country for almost 45 days. USPS held my mail for me. Apprently I received a jury summons (Murphy’s law) within a day or two of leaving. I missed the date, since I did not even see the summons until after the date had passed. > > When I called the clerk’s office, I asked if I was in trouble for missing the date, and what to do about it. That set off a very _unusual_ conversation. The clerk (a woman) and I had the following conversation: > > [ul] > [li]“I missed a jury summons because I was out of the country. Am I in trouble?”[/li][li]“I can’t answer that”[/li][li]“Okay, who can?”[/li][li]“No one should answer that question”[/li][li]“Okay, what does that mean?”[/li][li]“If the answer might be something you don’t want to hear, sometimes it’s best not to ask the question”[/li][li](long pause) Are you saying if I don’t ask the question, then no one can give me the answer I don’t want to hear?“[/li][li]Yes, that is a way of phrasing it, yes”[/li][li]“Okay, I guess you answered my question, because I now know not to ask the question” Am I getting this?“[/li][li]Yep, you got it” Thanks for calling."[/li][/ul] > > I probably paraphrased parts of that, it was a few years back, but that was the jist of it. When I was last called in for jury duty everyone who heard about it laughed at me for worrying about it and mailing back my juror reply. Each one said, “Now they know you got the letter. It’s not certified mail, you know! Never reply, rip it up and throw it in the trash, and they can never prove you actually got the letter. You never have to serve. I do that every time.” Every last one…even the police officers. And the court systems are so backed up they don’t want to add any more to the roster, like arresting people for not doing jury duty. In your situation, you were basically advised the same thing. Letter? What letter? You didn’t call about getting a letter, because then we’d have to bring charges against you. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/23 "2016-08-05T16:28:24Z")
I’ve been called up twice for jury duty in the last three years. Each time I’ve been almost instantly excused after the _voir dire_ examination where the judge and attorneys go through the “what’s your education/what do you read/what is your career” questions. My (admittedly limited) experience yields that folks with a graduate education are often dismissed – not just me, but other folks who had a college+ education were dismissed, at least from the penny-ante cases I was a prospective juror for; one was a “he said/she said” case involving a minor traffic accident and kinda shady neck/back injuries claims and the other a “I slipped on a banana peel in your store and can no longer play the accordion.” The thing is that I would love to be a juror! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/24 "2016-08-05T17:42:15Z")
It’s your \*duty \*dammit. Just do it. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/25 "2016-08-05T17:44:07Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > Yes, it’s fair. > > Jury duty is the only remaining civic duty, and it is the only price you pay for the ability to transact business as you please, meet with whom you choose, and bitch about government intrusions to a bunch of strangers on the internet without the worry that one of them is from the government and will arrest you for it. > > That said, you should certainly try to minimize the impact of jury duty on your schedule, but take my strong advice to get permission for whatever you end up doing, and do NOT act unilaterally. > > One of the few perks of being an attorney is watching people try to weasel out of jury duty and get kicked HARD right in the entitlement complex for it. It’s hilarious. Glad you find that so amusing. Being called for jury duty can be a fairly major disruption of one’s life, particularly if you end up losing an entire day and never getting called in even for voir dire. The entire system is set up for the convenience of the judge, attorneys and court staff. Explain to me why an attorney can call for a jury trial and then plead it out at the very last minute – when the case is called. If they are going to plead it out, they can certainly do so 24 hours before the court date so fewer prospective jurors need to be called in. The time I lost a day and never got called in for voir dire, we all had to watch a movie that told how vitally important we as jurors are to the legal system. And all I could think was, “If we’re so fucking important, why aren’t the good parking places reserved for jurors and prospective jurors instead of the judges and attorneys?” Treat jurors as if they are as important as the rest of the folks in our legal system. Respect them and the time they are giving to the process. Then maybe citizens will treat jury duty as something they are privileged to do instead of just a royal pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/26 "2016-08-05T17:49:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s your \*duty \*dammit. This. Do your duty. Also don’t forget to wipe. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/27 "2016-08-05T18:15:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because the responsibility for finding out the benefits and drawbacks of living somewhere go further than just listening to a salesman for a house. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, gee, thanks for that. I would never have thought! Are jury summoning systems rated on Yelp? Or do I just call every court system in my jurisdiction that I would be subject to (city, state, county, federal) and ask them if they are competent before I move? Or do you just like making useless posts just to say something? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/28 "2016-08-05T18:50:17Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Treat jurors as if they are as important as the rest of the folks in our legal system. Respect them and the time they are giving to the process. Then maybe citizens will treat jury duty as something they are privileged to do instead of just a royal pain in the ass. Again, speaking as someone who has a Christmas trip home cancelled because of deliberations on a murder case, there wasn’t a single moment during the whole trial where the importance of jurors wasn’t evident. Important jobs and roles don’t mean being catered to, however. See, for example, mothers. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/29 "2016-08-05T19:39:24Z")
Here in Portland, court is not in session on Fridays, as court officers have a myriad of things to take care of from the previous four days. So if you are called on a Thursday (which is kind of odd), the ‘second day’ would be Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/30 "2016-08-05T20:06:35Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > When I was last called in for jury duty everyone who heard about it laughed at me for worrying about it and mailing back my juror reply. Each one said, “Now they know you got the letter. It’s not certified mail, you know! Never reply, rip it up and throw it in the trash, and they can never prove you actually got the letter. You never have to serve. I do that every time.” Every last one…even the police officers. And the court systems are so backed up they don’t want to add any more to the roster, like arresting people for not doing jury duty. > > In your situation, you were basically advised the same thing. Letter? What letter? You didn’t call about getting a letter, because then we’d have to bring charges against you. LOL. I actually just had a similar situation. Jury summons usually show up in the mail here 2-4 weeks prior to the first call-in date. I got one last Friday, 7/29. I didn’t actually open the envelope until Sunday, 7/31, whereupon I discovered to my dismay that the first call-in date was … 7/29. No idea what happened, but yeah, the summons arrived in my mailbox precisely on the first call-in date. I _am_ actually perfectly happy to perform jury duty, especially this time of year\*. So on Monday, 8/1, I took the summons to the County Clerk’s office and explained the situation, and the lady there just told me to call the number that same night. I did so, and got the “you’re dismissed” message. - My job is cooking at my city’s convention center, and the convention business is, shall we say, “seasonal”. We’re completely slammed with work eight months out of the year (March - June and September - December) and then have almost no work at all during the other four months (January - February and July - August). So I totally depended upon my large income (tons of overtime pay and my share of gratuities) during the busy periods to fill up my savings, because I needed to live off those savings during the slow months. We also did, for a long time, all of the cooking for these events with _three cooks_. Taking any one of us out of the kitchen would have made pulling off the events a nightmare. So my “problem” was that these jury summons’ kept arriving in March and September. Right when my savings was depleted and I desperately needed to get back to work. I was able to get myself excused on this basis 3-4 times, but I finally ended up writing a letter to the court explaining the situation. I stressed that I was happy to serve, and asked if it would be possible to flag my name somehow so that I would get summoned in January-February or July-August. I’m not sure if “flagging” me was actually possible, but nevertheless most of my subsequent summons’ have arrived within those windows. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/31 "2016-08-05T20:45:04Z")
Anyone who thinks people choose where they live is privileged. Most people live where they can afford and where they get work. Most people are born and live in the same area all their lives, because they can’t afford to move. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. And if jury duty is such an important civic duty, then they would pay more for it. You pay more for what you need more of. There is a wide swath of people who will do it willingly. There’s very little reason for someone who is not interested to get involved. That’s why I think it’s so easy to get out of jury duty–if you don’t want to be there, they don’t really want you. You’re lack of desire to be there will affect your ability to serve. “Yeah, I could spend time making sure the evidence matches up, or I could just say it does and get home earlier.” I likewise recommend you call them and explain why you can’t go back in, and that you were just going to tell them you couldn’t serve due to your job, anyways. I’m actually surprised they didn’t just let you state that on the form. I checked the box saying I had a reason not to go, and explained about my anxiety, and I never heard from them again. It seems silly to make you go in and wait forever just to tell them why you can’t do the job. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/32 "2016-08-05T20:47:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Important jobs and roles don’t mean being catered to, however. See, for example, mothers. Testify. I’ve been called twice, and everyone was always pretty cooperative with my problems. The first time, I was in DC at college, I wrote a letter to this effect, and got a reply saying basically, “No problem. Forget about it; we’ll put your name back in the pool and catch you later.” The second time, I was pregnant. I was in my first trimester, so it wasn’t an automatic dismissal, but I did have a monthly doctor’s appointment. The woman in charge of the jurors was very accommodating, and took me off the roster for a couple of days to make sure I wasn’t serving on the day of my doctor’s appointment. She also said if I could get my doctor to write a note, I could get excused entirely, but I wanted to serve. And I did. Very last day of my eligibility. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/33 "2016-08-05T20:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mister Rik;19533089 So my “problem” was that these jury summons’ kept arriving in March and September. Right when my savings was depleted and I desperately needed to get back to work. I was able to get myself excused on this basis 3-4 times, but I finally ended up writing a letter to the court explaining the situation. I stressed that I was happy to serve, and asked if it would be possible to flag my name somehow so that I would get summoned in January-February or July-August. I’m not sure if “flagging” me was actually possible, but nevertheless most of my subsequent summons’ have arrived within those windows.[/QUOTE] You can usually volunteer. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/34 "2016-08-05T21:00:30Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Glad you find that so amusing. > > Being called for jury duty can be a fairly major disruption of one’s life, particularly if you end up losing an entire day and never getting called in even for voir dire. The entire system is set up for the convenience of the judge, attorneys and court staff. Explain to me why an attorney can call for a jury trial and then plead it out at the very last minute – when the case is called. If they are going to plead it out, they can certainly do so 24 hours before the court date so fewer prospective jurors need to be called in. > > The time I lost a day and never got called in for voir dire, we all had to watch a movie that told how vitally important we as jurors are to the legal system. And all I could think was, “If we’re so fucking important, why aren’t the good parking places reserved for jurors and prospective jurors instead of the judges and attorneys?” > > Treat jurors as if they are as important as the rest of the folks in our legal system. Respect them and the time they are giving to the process. Then maybe citizens will treat jury duty as something they are privileged to do instead of just a royal pain in the ass. Of course it’s amusing. It’s hilarious. Did you see how I used the word “weasel?” No one has any problem with excusing a mother with a newborn, or, for that matter, anyone with a legitimate reason not to be there. But when someone is obviously trying to game the system with some “hurr durr I’m racist plus I hate cops plus a guy who looks like the defendant ran over my dad” nonsense get sent to civil court for another full day of service, right before the day lets out in criminal? Oh, that’s comedy gold. You want me to explain to you “why an attorney can call for a jury trial and then plead it out at the very last minute – when the case is called?” That’s easy. Plea bargaining and settlement are games of chicken. A trial is unpredictable and costly, and its immediacy is a powerful incentive to bargain. Do you not understand this? Finally, yes, it’s a disruption. It’s also your duty. The only one you have. Do it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/35 "2016-08-05T21:06:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > Finally, yes, it’s a disruption. It’s also your duty. The only one you have. Do it. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/36 "2016-08-07T12:59:50Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Well, gee, thanks for that. I would never have thought! > > Are jury summoning systems rated on Yelp? Or do I just call every court system in my jurisdiction that I would be subject to (city, state, county, federal) and ask them if they are competent before I move? > > Or do you just like making useless posts just to say something? _:shrugs:_ The information is publicly available. If you’d rather whine about how hard it is when nobody spoon-feeds you, you can do that too. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/37 "2016-08-07T15:40:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Anyone who thinks people choose where they live is privileged. Most people live where they can afford and where they get work. Most people are born and live in the same area all their lives, because they can’t afford to move. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. > > And if jury duty is such an important civic duty, then they would pay more for it. You pay more for what you need more of. There is a wide swath of people who will do it willingly. There’s very little reason for someone who is not interested to get involved. That’s why I think it’s so easy to get out of jury duty–if you don’t want to be there, they don’t really want you. You’re lack of desire to be there will affect your ability to serve. “Yeah, I could spend time making sure the evidence matches up, or I could just say it does and get home earlier.” > > I likewise recommend you call them and explain why you can’t go back in, and that you were just going to tell them you couldn’t serve due to your job, anyways. I’m actually surprised they didn’t just let you state that on the form. I checked the box saying I had a reason not to go, and explained about my anxiety, and I never heard from them again. > > It seems silly to make you go in and wait forever just to tell them why you can’t do the job. First of all, financial hardship **is** a legitimate basis to be excused from jury duty. However, you generally have to make that pitch to a judge, not the Jury Commissioner. It’s a few hours out of your life. You and others as prospective jurors need to draw the distinction between what is a hardship for **you** , versus what is a hardship for your employer. If only your employer is horribly inconvenienced by your absence, then most judges aren’t terribly moved. Have you ever thought through your assertion that prospective jurors should get paid more? Do you have any idea how many prospective jurors are called for trials? Even a fairly straight-forward trial will require a couple hundred prospective jurors. Think about what your tax bill would be if courts were required to pay each person more for their mere appearance. It’s one of those things that is very satisfying to say but has little basis in reality. And again, as I have previously pointed out and **Happy Scrappy Hero Pup** reiterates, no matter **when** a plea agreement is reached, it is still a massive cost savings to taxpayers for cases to settle than to go to trial. That’s why plea deals and case settlements are accepted right up to the moment of trial commencement – and sometimes even during jury selection and/or trial. As a judge’s assistant, I saw it happen many times. I agree with **Happy Scrappy** about listening to prospective jurors’ excuses. Keeping a straight face was sometimes all but impossible. My all-time favorite was the fellow who tried all the standards, but the judge just wasn’t having it that day. The prospective juror remained in the pool. All of a sudden, his hand shot up and he announced loudly, “I just shit my pants! May I be excused now?” He had, and he was. So… you know, if you’re ever really hard up for an excuse… it’s not **that** hard to get out of jury duty. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/38 "2016-08-07T18:07:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Have you ever thought through your assertion that prospective jurors should get paid more? Do you have any idea how many prospective jurors are called for trials? Even a fairly straight-forward trial will require a couple hundred prospective jurors. Think about what your tax bill would be if courts were required to pay each person more for their mere appearance. It’s one of those things that is very satisfying to say but has little basis in reality. With Federal minimum wage laws, jury duty pay in my area would only be about 1:15; when you factor in various state & local minimum wage laws, it’s about 56 minutes. It should at least cover reasonable transportation costs & a modest lunch. Taking the train or driving leaves one in the red. ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/39 "2016-08-07T18:11:35Z")
I always say at every opportunity that I’m prejudice against all races. Never been selected yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757/40 "2016-08-07T18:25:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And if jury duty is such an important civic duty, then they would pay more for it. Which is why teachers’ pay is just off the charts, and why the President of the United States makes several times more than, say, the CEO of a tech company that has never actually had any substantial revenue, but just happens to be popular at the moment. Amirite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jury-duty-selection-is-it-really-fair-for-a-court-to-do-this/761757.md?page=3)