# Jussie Smollett - Say It Ain't So **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698 "2019-02-17T00:34:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/101 "2019-02-19T06:22:53Z")
Revised my data. Quick math from a wiki is a bad idea. My earlier data was over a 4 year period between 2008 and 2012. The actual chance in year 2017 that a black person would be the victim of a hate crime was 0.00006% LGBT: 0.00014% > **[Table 1](https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/tables/table-1.xls)** ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/102 "2019-02-19T06:23:49Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > My earlier data was over a 4 year period between 2008 and 2012. The actual chance in year 2017 that a black person would be the victim of a hate crime was 0.00006% > > LGBT: 0.00014% > > [FBI — Table 1](https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/tables/table-1.xls) Fine. What’s the percentage of people who commit hoaxes? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/103 "2019-02-19T06:28:06Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > The actual chance in year 2017 that a black person would be the victim of a hate crime was 0.00006% 0.00006% of the black population of the United States is 24 people. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/104 "2019-02-19T06:29:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > 1. From what I’ve seen, it’s the right wing media that turns this “statistically basically zero” problem into “a launching pad to pillory political opponents”. Why don’t you address the people causing the problem, which is the right wing media? If you want to point a finger, why are you so resistant to point the finger at the right people? Major newspapers and major media figures, as well as almost every notable Democratic candidate and Democratic figures such as Nancy Pelosi hopped onto the Smollet story immediately, condemning the attack and calling for new legislation and amplifying the story. Other celebrities showed up on Late Night Residence Porn to plead with America to open their eyes to what Trump is doing to America, the racism and hatred he’s emboldened. And it was all just a bunch of crap. Not just the story, but the narrative of an epidemic. This wasn’t a right-wing hit, this whole affair. > [@](#): > > 1. Pick any newspaper article about this incident that has unfiltered comments. What percentage of the comments do you think will be nasty racist right-wing filth? 100%? 95%? That seems like a pretty big problem given that we have THIRTEEN THOUSAND ANTI-BLACK HATE CRIMES A YEAR. Why don’t you go complain about that? It depends on the outlet. You know that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/105 "2019-02-19T06:30:45Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > LGBT: 0.00014% 19 people ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/106 "2019-02-19T06:31:23Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > 0.00006% of the black population of the United States is 24 people. 2400 / 38000000 2400 per year, 38000000 total pop. Where am I going wrong here? Help me Evil Economist. Edit: Alright, here we go: 0.0063% for black individuals, 0.012% for LGBT. Math is hard, lay off me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/107 "2019-02-19T06:36:40Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Democratic figures such as Nancy Pelosi hopped onto the Smollet story immediately, condemning the attack and calling for new legislation and amplifying the story. Here’s what Nanci Pelosi said: "The racist, homophobic attack on @JussieSmollett is an affront to our humanity. No one should be attacked for who they are or whom they love. I pray that Jussie has a speedy recovery & that justice is served. May we all commit to ending this hate once & for all.” Highlight the bit you disagree with. > [@](#): > > This wasn’t a right-wing hit, this whole affair. I’m reading the news and all I see is right-wing trolls using this story to attack people. But for some reason you forgot to mention the right-wing trolls who are generating the vast majority of content around this story. Why? > [@](#): > > It depends on the outlet. You know that. Pick any outlet with unfiltered comments. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/108 "2019-02-19T06:37:45Z")
It’s a very, very small number is the point here. Which is fantastic, by the way. We should be celebrating this while working to reduce it even further. We should not be pointing to these fractions of a fraction of a percent and proposing it as a major systemic crisis caused by our political opponents. Especially when the data has remained consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/109 "2019-02-19T06:38:58Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > 2400 / 38000000 > > 2400 per year, 38000000 total pop. > > Where am I going wrong here? > > Help me Evil Economist. > > Edit: > > Alright, here we go: 0.0063% for black individuals, 0.012% for LGBT. > > Math is hard, lay off me. Now do the math for hoaxers, and explain why, if actual hate crimes is a “statistically small problem”, you’re so concerned about a problem that’s a tiny fraction of a percent of the “statistically small problem”. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/110 "2019-02-19T06:48:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Now do the math for hoaxers, and explain why, if actual hate crimes is a “statistically small problem”, you’re so concerned about a problem that’s a tiny fraction of a percent of the “statistically small problem”. I began the discussion simply stating the fact that there’s a demand for these stories that far exceeds the supply. And the reason it raises my hackles is because it speaks to a very gutter-level form of political opposition: to malign your opponents as the worst kind of people. The only thing worse than these spates of hoax racist, homophobic hate crimes would be if the left were propagating hoax pedophile stories about Republicans. We’re _all_ concerned about hate crimes. Of particular interest to Republicans, however, is this noticeable movement to manufacture hate crimes for the purpose of painting Republicans and Republican leadership as racist hatemongers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/111 "2019-02-19T06:56:33Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > And the reason it raises my hackles is because it speaks to a very gutter-level form of political opposition: to malign your opponents as the worst kind of people. But you follow this brave statement by maligning “the left” as the kind of people who manufacture hate crimes to harm Republicans. That’s worse than anything anyone credible on the left ever said. The fact that you’re using the Smollett story to attack “the left” somewhat damages your claim to be an innocent bystander upset by the whole thing. Also, earlier you gave Nancy Pelosi as your example of one of the left who jumped on the story. I’ll repeat my question: Here’s what Nanci Pelosi said: "The racist, homophobic attack on @JussieSmollett is an affront to our humanity. No one should be attacked for who they are or whom they love. I pray that Jussie has a speedy recovery & that justice is served. May we all commit to ending this hate once & for all.” Highlight the bit you disagree with. And then highlight the bit that blames Republicans. I’m guessing you can’t do either. Does that make you second-guess at all the people who sold you this outrage? ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/112 "2019-02-19T07:04:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > But you follow this brave statement by maligning “the left” as the kind of people who manufacture hate crimes to harm Republicans. That’s worse than anything anyone credible on the left ever said. The fact that you’re using the Smollett story to attack “the left” somewhat damages your claim to be an innocent bystander upset by the whole thing. What are you even suggesting? That all of these hoax hate crimes (including Smollett) against Trump were secret Republicans? That they were all self-hating right-wingers? _Of course_ they were on the left. I’m not trying to attack the left as much as I am trying to defend against them. > [@](#): > > Also, earlier you gave Nancy Pelosi as your example of one of the left who jumped on the story. I’ll repeat my question: Here’s what Nanci Pelosi said: > "The racist, homophobic attack on @JussieSmollett is an affront to our humanity. No one should be attacked for who they are or whom they love. I pray that Jussie has a speedy recovery & that justice is served. May we all commit to ending this hate once & for all.” > Highlight the bit you disagree with. And then highlight the bit that blames Republicans. They themselves did not blame Republicans, but the story warranting comment by all the major players in the Democratic Party, including the Speaker of the House and every major Democratic contender of note elevated the story and they let the left-wing celebrity hoi polloi take it from there. Put it this way: You didn’t see the same unified Democratic leadership reaction to a Jewish man [beaten up the same night](https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Brooklyn-Jewish-man-brutally-beaten-by-unidentified-assailants-579204) as the Smollet incident. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/113 "2019-02-19T07:21:17Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > What are you even suggesting? That all of these hoax hate crimes (including Smollett) against Trump were secret Republicans? That they were all self-hating right-wingers? _Of course_ they were on the left. I never asked any of them how they voted (though you seem to make assumptions). But that’s not the point–the point is you claim their actions represent the whole of the left, which is insane. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to attack the left as much as I am trying to defend against them.[ “The Left” didn’t commit this hoax. One person did. How the fuck do you attack tens of millions of people based on the actions of one person who might share a couple of their political beliefs? Do you not see the problem? (Hint: the problem is you) > [@](#): > > They themselves did not blame Republicans No they didn’t. > [@](#): > > Put it this way: You didn’t see the same unified Democratic leadership reaction to a Jewish man [beaten up the same night](https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Brooklyn-Jewish-man-brutally-beaten-by-unidentified-assailants-579204) as the Smollet incident. Was this guy a celebrity? Did he personally know some of the people who spoke in his defense? Were there tens of thousands of right-wing trolls talking about the incident? Based on your own numbers there were maybe 9 or 10 hate crimes against black people committed that very night. Did you ever speak about any of them? Did the right wing leadership condemn any of those attacks? Where was the unified right-wing condemnation of those 10 legitimate attacks? Why was there radio silence? There’ll probably be another 10 hate crimes committed today. Will you condemn those attacks? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/114 "2019-02-19T11:31:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Here’s what Nanci Pelosi said: > > "The racist, homophobic attack on @JussieSmollett is an affront to our humanity. No one should be attacked for who they are or whom they love. I pray that Jussie has a speedy recovery & that justice is served. May we all commit to ending this hate once & for all.” > > Highlight the bit you disagree with. I’d say “The racist, homophobic attack”, because that’s begging the question that the attack existed. > [@Dacien](#): > > We should not be pointing to these fractions of a fraction of a percent and proposing it as a major systemic crisis caused by our political opponents. Especially when the data has remained consistent. Up until DJT, I would have agreed with you on this. Even if the number of hate crimes has remained consistent, the Trumpist wing of the GOP has condoned many of the attacks and the attackers as “fine people”. But nonetheless, I’d agree that this attitude shift is well down the list of major systemic problems with the GOP in terms of the well-being of the people of America. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/115 "2019-02-19T16:12:06Z")
You mean downtown Chicago\* isn’t\* MAGA-country? I’m shocked,\* SHOCKED \*that this turned out to be total bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/116 "2019-02-19T17:50:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So many? I’m aware of maybe 3 hoax racist attacks in the past couple decades. I mean, I haven’t looked for them, but I only could name maybe 2 hoaxers. By odd coincidence, this article just came up on my FB feed. [Here’s A List Of Hoax ‘Hate Crimes’ In The Trump Era](https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/18/hoax-hate-crimes-list) (22 including Jussie) So more than two or three, but likely less than legitimate attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/117 "2019-02-19T18:01:26Z")
And that fucker Carlson’s site is hardly unbiased, nor [all that reliable](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/). ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/118 "2019-02-19T18:11:43Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > You mean downtown Chicago\* isn’t\* MAGA-country? I’m shocked,\* SHOCKED \*that this turned out to be total bullshit. That note he received he probably made himself as well. It’s like he used some cartoon inspired idea of reality to plan this. Cutting magazine letters out? Scribbling with the off hand or feet? Thankfully, no one innocent got arrested and worked over for a confession over this. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/119 "2019-02-19T18:34:32Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’d say “The racist, homophobic attack”, because that’s begging the question that the attack existed. Huh? That would only apply if you read her comment as an attempt to prove that the attack happened. What she did was make the mistake of talking like a normal human being, who isn’t going to put the word “alleged” in front of something like this. What she did was avoid accusing the purported victim of lying. But, because she’s a Democrat and thus part of “the Left,” this is being spun into someone pushing a conspiracy. I was going to give advice not to help your opponent, but it seems you actually think hoax hate speech is more common than the real thing. I hadn’t pegged you for part of the alt right before. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698/120 "2019-02-19T18:55:41Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > And that fucker Carlson’s site is hardly unbiased, nor [all that reliable](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/). I checked CNN but they didn’t have a compilation of hoax attacks available online at this time. But if you would care to point out any of the incidents categorized incorrectly I’ll be happy to amend the count. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jussie-smollett-say-it-aint-so/829698.md?page=7)