# Just another apocalypse gone by? The end of the Mayan Calendar. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926 "2007-11-01T21:26:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sevoulian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@Sevoulian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevoulian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/1 "2007-11-01T21:26:33Z")
Ok, so it appears that as the various apocalypse’s come and go, their credibility, (understandably so) becomes an example of paramount human ignorance and the lack of understanding of how the Universe works. You won’t find me hiding under my bed or praying in the streets on the various anonymous doomsday dates that are constantly being dished out to the masses. However, I don’t quite know what to make of the end of the Mayan Calendar slated for an abrupt closure on December 21, 2012. I’m sure many of you are familiar with this date but if not I have provided a link. [Maya Calendar](http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-mayan.html) In addition to the more factual link above, I have provided a link to the more philosophical implications cited by research into the mayans personal beliefs regarding the importance of the date. You may want to skim around because it is quite lengthy. [December 2012](http://www.levity.com/eschaton/why2012.html) Beyond the links I have provided there is a mass amount of literature on the subject. It is interesting to note that the mayans weren’t the only civilization to come up with this date. American Terrence Mckenna is the most recent one to strike upon the significance of that particular date, in what he calls “Timewave Zero”. There is a link regarding Mckenna within the previous link I posted. And though many believe it is a harbinger of armageddon, many more believe it is just the beginning of a new world age, complete with many compelling results for mankind. I just wanted to bring this topic up for discussion because of it’s seemingly relevant significance, especially concerning our current state of being. Is this just another fallacy of understanding or is there something more to it? The mayans were brilliant astronomers considering how primitive their civilization stands to our own. Were they on to something? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/2 "2007-11-01T22:04:22Z")
If I was going to be scared of an arbitrary calender turnover, I’d be scared of Tuesday, January 19, 2038, when the standard date object on unix systems rolls over. That at least has a discernable _chance_ of causing problems. There is no reason to think that the rollover date of some ancienct calender is timed to a prediction of the end of the world, even if the makers of it _were_ good at astronomy. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/3 "2007-11-01T22:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Despite the publicity generated by the 2012 date, Susan Milbraath, curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History, stated that “We [the archaeological community] have no record or knowledge that [the Maya] would think the world would come to an end” in 2012. > > “For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle,” says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is “a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in.” Source: [Mesoamerican Long Count calendar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_Long_Count_calendar#2012_and_the_Long_Count) ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/4 "2007-11-01T23:40:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sevoulian] It is interesting to note that the mayans weren’t the only civilization to come up with this date. American Terrence Mckenna is the most recent one to strike upon the significance of that particular date, in what he calls “Timewave Zero”. [/QUOTE] Well, originally he was going to pick an end date based on a specific time lapse after Hiroshima, which would have led to November 2012, but modified it to match the Mayan end date since it was only a month later. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/5 "2007-11-02T00:08:33Z")
From that same Wikipedia entry: > [@](#): > > Maya stela occasionally show dates beyond 2012. Most of these are in the form of “distance dates”, where a Long Count date is given with a distance date to be added. For example, on Tablet of Inscriptions from Palenque we find the following Long Count date: 9.8.9.13.0 8 Ahau 13 Pop (24th March 603 AD Gregorian) with a distance date of 10.11.10.5.8. The resulting date is given as 1.0.0.0.0.8 5 Lamat 1 Mol,[10] or 21st October 4772 AD – almost 3,000 years into the future. The king Pacal of Palenque predicted that on this date the eightieth Calendar Round anniversary of his accession will be celebrated, suggesting he did not believe the world would end in 2012… So, if we’re to take Mayan calendrical counts seriously enough to consider 2012 to be significant, we also need to take seriously the prediction that there’ll still be people around in 4772, meaning 2012 is hardly the end of the world. (Unless of course it’ll be cockroaches hoisting a bowl of chocolate in 4772, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/6 "2007-11-02T00:09:04Z")
Oh well. I’ve had a good run. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/7 "2007-11-02T00:10:37Z")
Oops. Forgot to add, basically the 2012 armageddon crew is engaging in the same sort of pick and choose thinking the biblical literalists are so fond of. They can justify their prediction by ignoring other documents. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/8 "2007-11-02T00:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] If I was going to be scared of an arbitrary calender turnover, I’d be scared of Tuesday, January 19, 2038, when the standard date object on unix systems rolls over. [/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing. That’s also the year when [a rouge asteroid may strike the Earth](http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Asteroid_impact_2038_-_Earth_definitely_doomed_(again)), although the liberal media is naturally downplaying that danger. 😉 As for the Mayans…didn’t their civilization already experience its own apocalypse? It seems like their end-of-the-world prophecy was off by several centuries. Just in case, from now on, I plan to party like it’s 2012. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/9 "2007-11-02T00:32:28Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] I was thinking the same thing. That’s also the year when [a rouge asteroid may strike the Earth](http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Asteroid_impact_2038_-_Earth_definitely_doomed_(again)), although the liberal media is naturally downplaying that danger. 😉 [/QUOTE] Nah… it’ll strike Mars. It’s a matter of predilection. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/10 "2007-11-02T03:43:39Z")
Since the Mayans were unable to predict when their own world crapped out it’s highly unlikely–OK; nonsensical–that they could predict when anything else would happen. What’s amusing to me is that the Mayan’s fairy tales of the first three worlds are obviously silly folklore having nothing to do with the actual history of what has happened with the universe and the earth so far. Why then, would anyone pay attention to the putative end of the fourth world when the predictors are obviously making stuff up and batting zero with their accuracy to date? Is there no lower limit to gullibility? Even though it was done for reaons of political correctness, I remain content that the word was removed from the dictionary. An inability to apply rational thinking to anything has become so widespread that “gullible” no longer has any meaning anyway. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/11 "2007-11-02T10:13:40Z")
Well, if the world _does_ end in 2012, won’t you all look silly! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/12 "2007-11-02T10:29:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Nah… it’ll strike Mars. It’s a matter of predilection. [/QUOTE] Probably, although if it does strike the US, I would say it’s more likely to hit Manhattan than New England. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/13 "2007-11-02T10:32:33Z")
I think companies still running on Mayan computers might experience difficulties at or near the time the calendar clicks over - tins of corned beef being mistakenly identified as being hundreds, or thousands of years past their best before date. Other that that, it will be business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/14 "2007-11-02T10:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] That’s also the year when [a rouge asteroid may strike the Earth](http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Asteroid_impact_2038_-_Earth_definitely_doomed_(again)), [/QUOTE] Is that before or after we get hit by a mascara meteor? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/15 "2007-11-02T10:41:08Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] [Mesoamerican Long Count calendar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_Long_Count_calendar#2012_and_the_Long_Count) [/QUOTE] And in all those millennia, they’ve never once gotten the Incas to jump offsides. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/16 "2007-11-02T11:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Just in case, from now on, I plan to party like it’s 2012. 🆒 [/QUOTE] [Purple Velvet Tuxedo] _Two Thousand One Two Party’s over, worlds gone to hell. But tonight we’re gonna party like it’s Twenty aa…aand twelve._ [/Purple Velvet Tuxedo] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/17 "2007-11-02T11:24:19Z")
So on the one hand you’re giving examples of armagedda as being foolhardy, yet crediting the Mayans with fortune-telling abilities. Is there not a more compelling pattern you can see from the statistical results extant to date: End-of-world-predictions that failed: thousands (possibly more) End-of-world-predictions that succeeded: none What makes the Mayans more gifted _and supernatural_ than all the other misguided doomsayers out there? Furthermore, I once had the misfortune of reading a Terence McKenna book, and I can assure you that he’s madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of the Maddest Man in Christendom competition, seven years’ running. His involvement in this nonsense doesn’t add any weight to your speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/18 "2007-11-02T11:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] I was thinking the same thing. That’s also the year when [a rouge asteroid may strike the Earth](http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Asteroid_impact_2038_-_Earth_definitely_doomed_(again)) [/QUOTE] There’ll be a lot of red faces that day. ---
**Author:** ![kangaroo\_in\_black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kangaroo\_in\_black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kangaroo_in_black)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/19 "2007-11-02T12:18:52Z")
I think there may be more than just a calendar turnover cycle on 12/21/2012. Last week I saw a show on the History Channel about the Mayan Calendar. It was specifically Apocalypse based; however, one of the things mentioned was the alignment of the Sun in the middle of the Milkway. Note: Middle is not the technical term, just the easiest way to describe it. Here’s a link off the History Channel to the Show. [http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=214250](http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=214250) There’s also support for this astrological phenomena idea from this site. [http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html](http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html) I don’t have any star map programs available right now so I can’t directly verify this, but for a culture that is known to have studied the heavens, this seems like a likely explanation. ---
**Author:** ![WideEyedCosmos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@WideEyedCosmos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WideEyedCosmos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926/20 "2007-11-02T13:43:40Z")
I’m more interested in the astronomical phenomena of that date than the mythology associated with it. Although, I find it very interesting and suggest everyone check out the link above directing you to the History Channel special about that particular date. Here’s a quote of the text which reads below the screen… > [@](#): > > There are prophecies and oracles from around the world that all seem to point to December 21, 2012 as doomsday. The ancient Mayan Calendar, the medieval predictions of Merlin, the Book of Revelation and the Chinese oracle of the I Ching all point to this specific date as the end of civilization. A new technology called “The Web-Bot Project” makes massive scans of the internet as a means of forecasting the future… and has turned up the same dreaded date: 2012. Skeptics point to a long history of “Failed Doomsdays”, but many oracles of doom throughout history have a disturbingly accurate track record. As the year 2012 ticks ever closer we’ll speculate if there are any reasons to believe these doomsayers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-another-apocalypse-gone-by-the-end-of-the-mayan-calendar/424926.md?page=2)