# Just Askin' -God and Stuff.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584 "2003-07-19T15:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/61 "2003-08-21T20:01:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\*I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but even _with_ 1/3 of the world’s population believing in one sort of God or another, moral relatism still exists. God tells some people that it is perfectly OK to kill non-believers. God tells other people that it is perfectly OK to let your child die from malnutrition and/or other easily preventable diseases rather than seek out medical care. God tells other people that it is OK to hate homosexuals. God tells other people that plural marriage is a divine commandment. > > What’s that? You don’t believe that God was really the one who said those things? Perhaps you think that it’s just man misinterpreting the word of God or making it up entirely? Well, guess what – once you start picking and choosing what you want to accept and disregarding anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, you’ve got moral relativism. > > God can certainly be used as a motivation to do good works. He can also, however, be used as an excuse to commit atrocities. Without an innate sense of morality, wholly apart from religous dogma, no believer in God can claim to be moral. > > Regards, > > Barry \*\* God is unconditional love, He harms no one. It is man that blames God for their own actions, whether they believe in Him or not. Your remarks are as false as the people you accuse. God Bless Leroy ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/62 "2003-08-21T20:56:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > **God is unconditional love, He harms no one.** According to whom? That’s certainly not how God has historically been portrayed. If you want to disregard any part of the Bible that disagrees with your personal concept of God, that’s fine. But then we’re back to the whole “moral relativism” problem that the OP brought up. My point is that if somebody relies solely on “God’s word” as a basis for their morality or ethics, they _must_ pick and choose from among the many statements attributed to God. And the only way they can decide which words to follow is if they have an innate sense of morality that exists wholly apart from what “God” has told them. In other words, you _choose_ to believe that God is unconditional love and that he harms no one. And that’s perfectly fine. But in order to believe that, you must disregard large chunks of the Old Testament and interpret the New Testament in such a way that “Eternal Damnation” doesn’t mean what it sounds like. You must also disregard the religious books of other religions, such as Islam, that contradict your chosen concept of God. And you choose to believe this, I suggest, because you are a good and moral person, not the other way around. Other people are not so moral and ethical, and therefore pick and choose those parts of God’s word that justifies murder, prejudice, and a whole plethora of other immoral acts. Barry ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/63 "2003-08-21T23:50:01Z")
Godzilla: You’ve been lekatted. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/64 "2003-08-22T00:53:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Godzilla: You’ve been lekatted. \*\* So I noticed. Whenever anybody glurges that “God is love” I always think about a syllogism that one of my philosphy professors used to write on the board: God is Love Love is Blind Ray Charles is Blind Ergo, Ray Charles is God 😃 Barry ---
**Author:** ![stick\_monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@stick\_monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stick_monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/65 "2003-08-22T11:45:23Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > God is Love > Love is Blind > Ray Charles is Blind > Ergo, Ray Charles is God \*\* OMG I found my new Sig. May I quote you on that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/66 "2003-08-22T11:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stick monkey \* > > * * * > > OMG I found my new Sig. May I quote you on that? \*\* You’ll have to ask [all](http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22ray+charles+is+god%22+%22love+is+blind%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=) these people too. Now, this is a sig: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/67 "2003-08-22T11:58:13Z")
Ahem: Remind me to start pit thread: If I preview with show sig, I expect submit to include it to! ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/68 "2003-08-22T18:55:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\*God is Love > Love is Blind > Ray Charles is Blind > Ergo, Ray Charles is God > \*\* Does that mean Ronnie Milsap, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles are THE SAME PERSON!? ---
**Author:** ![Laurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Laurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laurie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/69 "2003-08-23T06:42:07Z")
OMG. OK. There is no God. There is NO measure of law which is inviolate. Law is only subject to those who can enforce it. Think about it. YOU, then, are subject to whatever political structure is in place. It could be Hitler. It could be Stalin. It could be Pat Robertson. It could be Billy Graham. It could be Teddy Roosevelt. It could be Abraham Lincoln. It could be Bill Clinton. It could be Ronald Reagon. It could be FDR. It could be JFK. It could be Adi Amin. It could be an Ayatolah. It could be any NUMBER of males who have fought valiently and hard to keep their domains (geography, goods, intellectual credentials) It COULD be any one of these fellas. There is no ‘God.’ Of course. There is only Science. We must ‘love’ one another for purposes continuing the species. The ‘God’ stuff…the ‘black and white’ moral and ethical stuff is just bullshit. Give me a situation. Give me a person. Give me a goal. Give me a second to call bullshit…ooops… The Bastards are keeping control of the World’s OIL…OIL… Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/70 "2003-08-23T12:35:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laurie \* > \*\*OMG. > > OK. There is no God. \*\* I knew you would come around. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*\*There is NO measure of law which is inviolate. > > Law is only subject to those who can enforce it. \*\* It’s like this: Humans have morals because we are moral animals(just as we are vertebrates, bipeds and speech capable animals).It is an evolutionary adaption, whether you like the sound of that or not.If we had not developed these social adaptions, we would not be around to discuss the matter now. These morals, which are more practical than mystical, form the basis of the constructs we call “laws”.Laws are there to keep individuals in line who either ignore their conciences for some gain and act immorally or are so defective that they do not have conciences/morals(i.e. brain damaged, sociopaths etc.). > [@](#): > > \*\*Think about it. > > YOU, then, are subject to whatever political structure is in place. > > It could be Hitler. > It could be Stalin. \*\* People WERE subject to those despots adn did not have much say in the matter.Hitler was a chrisitan with some pagan leanings and his regime was fully rooted in these religious beliefs.Stalin was an atheist but his atheism had nothing to do with his actions as a dictator.In either case you could scream “God’s law” until the cows came home and it would not save you from a public execution or death camp. > [@](#): > > \*\*It could be Pat Robertson. > It could be Billy Graham. \*\* If one of these men were to hypothetically achieve such power that they could change laws, make new ones and enforce these things then yes, I would be subject to them. [quote] \*\*It could be Teddy Roosevelt. It could be Abraham Lincoln. It could be Bill Clinton. It could be Ronald Reagon. It could be FDR. It could be JFK. It could be Adi Amin. It could be an Ayatolah. It could be any NUMBER of males who have fought valiently and hard to keep their domains (geography, goods, intellectual credentials) It COULD be any one of these fellas. [quote] \*\* Correct. > [@](#): > > \*\*There is no ‘God.’ \*\* I already gave you brownie points for this! > [@](#): > > \*\*Of course. > > There is only Science.\*\* My what large straw teeth you have! _The better to obfuscate matters with, my dear!_ > [@](#): > > \*\*We must ‘love’ one another for purposes continuing the species. \*\* Reproduction IS at the heart of natural selection and I agree it does not sound as neat as magical invisible gods, magically creating stuff which begats other stuff and ll that but I think your problem is that you are assuming, _a priori_ that there are “higher purposes” adn/or “ultimate meanings” to life beyond which we assign it.Therefore you assume we are stating the the “meaning of life” is to reproduce and this sounds preposterous to you. It is like this: If we had no drive to reproduce and were not passing these traits along in the gene pool then we would not be around here to discuss whether or not any gods exist.That simple. > [@](#): > > \*\*The ‘God’ stuff…the ‘black and white’ moral and ethical stuff is just bullshit. \*\* ANother strawman.I have ethics/morals.Just because they do not come from God does not cheapen them or negate them. > [@](#): > > \*\*Give me a situation. Give me a person. Give me a goal. Give me a second to call bullshit…ooops… > > The Bastards are keeping control of the World’s OIL…OIL… > > Sorry… \*\* ?!? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584/71 "2003-08-23T16:00:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Does that mean Ronnie Milsap, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles are THE SAME PERSON!? \*\* No. Let me explain to you the Dogma of the Trinity, my son… 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-askin-god-and-stuff/189584.md?page=3)