# Just because I'm sick and tired of all the Gay-bashing done by the "Religious Right" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388 "2010-09-20T12:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/21 "2010-09-20T22:45:17Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Look at all the money and time I wasted on theology and biblical interpretation studies when I could have just had you cherry-pick verses out of any historic or textual context and tell me what they mean. Kinda like the gay-bashers do. There’s a lot more gay-bashers than there are people willing to stand up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/22 "2010-09-20T22:48:47Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > > [@Skammer](#): > > > > Look at all the money and time I wasted on theology and biblical interpretation studies when I could have just had you cherry-pick verses out of any historic or textual context and tell me what they mean. Kinda like the gay-bashers do. > > **Skammer** , I’m sure you probably haven’t realized this yet, but you DID waste your money on theology and biblical interpretation studies.\* There is no god, and all religion is foolishness. > > Yes, **Doxy** did cherry-pick and take quite a few verses out of context, and she ignored some mitigating details and alternate interpretations of some of those passages. As a very well educated ex-Christian who knows the Bible (and apologetics and hermeneutics) better than most, I was able to spot these right away. > > But the point remains: Modern Christians do, as a matter of demonstrable fact, pick and choose which Biblical mandates they’re going to adhere to and observe. There’s simply no denying this. So **Doxy** ’s basic charge of hypocrisy stands unimpeached. > > (Moreover, there are PLENTY of divinely-sanctioned or even divinely-_commanded_ atrocities and moral obscenities in the Bible, that utterly negate the Judeo-Xtian God as any kind of moral authority at all. I’m happy to cite and comment on these, IN CONTEXT. So why in fuck’s name Christians want to uphold the Biblical god as “good,” and condemn homosexuality because he so decrees it, is utterly beyond me.) > \*By the way, did you know that Muslims and Mormons use the exact same kind of weasely “interpretation” techniques that Christians do, to explain away the absurdities, contradictions, and errors in their own holy books? I know this, because I’ve personally pored over thousands of pages of Mormon and Muslim scriptural apologetics and commentary, just as I have, over the Biblical. And in employing these methods, these scholars seem (superficially) very successful at upholding their holy books as divinely-authored. Just like Christian scholars. Think very carefully about what this might suggest about the interpretive validity of such hermeneutical techniques. Thank-you for realizing that a “Doxy” is female! LOL And thank-you for your intelligent response. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/23 "2010-09-20T23:23:00Z")
A wild guess would also say the the OP is a Heinlein reader as well, although this is a WAG. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard use the word “doxy,” and even then it was to perpetrate a bad pun. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/24 "2010-09-20T23:30:19Z")
Just a note if you will, but when replying to multiple posts in sequence, it’s preferable to multiquote their posts rather than post four times in a row. The multiquote button is the “Notepad”+" button on the lower right of a user’s post. Hit them for the posts you’d like to quote then use the “Post Reply” function at the bottom of a thread to get an edit window with all the quotes. Other than that, welcome to the Straight Dope, **Doxy**! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/25 "2010-09-20T23:32:39Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > But the point remains: Modern Christians do, as a matter of demonstrable fact, pick and choose which Biblical mandates they’re going to adhere to and observe. There’s simply no denying this. So **Doxy** ’s basic charge of hypocrisy stands unimpeached. Especially if someone makes a big deal out of being a Christian. > [@](#): > > Matt.6 > [1] Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. > [2] Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. > [3] But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: > [4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. > [5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. > [6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. > [7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ---
**Author:** ![EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac8455/32.png) [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EVERYNAMEISTAKEN)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/26 "2010-09-20T23:33:30Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > If you are going to claim that one small part of the bible is the absolute last word on whether or not Bill & Ted can get married, then you sort of HAVE to accept that ALL of the bible is in effect. YEAH! Thank you for this post. Funny and nailed it right on the head. I am so sick of Christians using Leviticus 22 as proof that homosexuality is wrong. Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/27 "2010-09-20T23:49:04Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Look at all the money and time I wasted on theology and biblical interpretation studies when I could have just had you cherry-pick verses out of any historic or textual context and tell me what they mean. Kinda like the gay-bashers do. Was that a woosh I heard? I could swear I just heard a woosh. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/28 "2010-09-21T00:05:02Z")
Oh Maaaaaaaaan ain’t this the shit!! 😃 Thanks Gukumatz!!! 😃 > [@silenus](#): > > A wild guess would also say the the OP is a Heinlein reader as well, although this is a WAG. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard use the word “doxy,” and even then it was to perpetrate a bad pun. Yes, originally I called myself “Heinlein’s Doxy” just because if he was still alive, I’d throw myself shamelessly at him! 😛 > [@Gukumatz](#): > > Just a note if you will, but when replying to multiple posts in sequence, it’s preferable to multiquote their posts rather than post four times in a row. The multiquote button is the “Notepad”+" button on the lower right of a user’s post. Hit them for the posts you’d like to quote then use the “Post Reply” function at the bottom of a thread to get an edit window with all the quotes. > > Other than that, welcome to the Straight Dope, **Doxy**! Thank-you for the welcome and the lesson. 😉 > [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > If you are going to claim that one small part of the bible is the absolute last word on whether or not Bill & Ted can get married, then you sort of HAVE to accept that ALL of the bible is in effect. > > YEAH! Thank you for this post. Funny and nailed it right on the head. I am so sick of Christians using Leviticus 22 as proof that homosexuality is wrong. Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. Thank-you for your kind words, ENIT and you are very welcome. 🆒 (Of course, you know that there is a passage in the New Testament that says homosexuality is a sin too… but most folks don’t know where to find it and I wasn’t about to show it to them in my post! LOL) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/29 "2010-09-21T00:11:20Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > > [@Skammer](#): > > > > Look at all the money and time I wasted on theology and biblical interpretation studies when I could have just had you cherry-pick verses out of any historic or textual context and tell me what they mean. Kinda like the gay-bashers do. > > Yes, **Doxy** did cherry-pick and take quite a few verses out of context, and she ignored some mitigating details and alternate interpretations of some of those passages. As a very well educated ex-Christian who knows the Bible (and apologetics and hermeneutics) better than most, I was able to spot these right away. > > But the point remains: Modern Christians do, as a matter of demonstrable fact, pick and choose which Biblical mandates they’re going to adhere to and observe. There’s simply no denying this. So do Jews. We don’t read every word of the Torah as literally true. We interpret it with the aid of our tradition and commentaries (I understand the Catholics do something similar). We have a [huge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud) amount of commentary, and commentary on commentaries, on the Bible. > [@Doxy](#): > > I would welcome any differing opinion on the interpretation of the quoted verses. > > Do you see any other way to interpret the following? > > KJV Lev. 11:10 > > “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:” > > KJV is not always easy to follow… let’s try the NAS: > > “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you,” You do, of course, realize that the Bible was not originally written in English? And that there are always issues of losing nuances of meaning when translating from one language to another? Yom Kippur was this past Saturday. On the afternoon of Yom Kippur, we read the book of Jonah in the synagogue. I learned something interesting from our new prayer book this year. The idea that Jonah was swallowed by a whale comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. In Hebrew, the term for the animal that swallowed Jonah is _dag gadol_, which is literally “big fish”. But the Greek term that it was translated to can also mean “whale”. The idea of Jonah being swallowed by a whale comes from that translation, not from the original Hebrew. Of course, some modern-day literalists get past this by saying some translation of the Bible was divinely inspired. I think Jack Chick is an example of someone who thinks the KJV was. I think the translation issues are one more reason why insisting on a literal interpretation of everything in the Bible is silly. > [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. Yes. And note that there is a big difference between refraining from doing something (say, eating pork) and insisting that the law of the land forbid everybody from doing something. Those are two totally different things. If you go to Israel, you can find pork if you really want to. It’s not illegal to eat or sell it. Supposedly it is popular with recent immigrants to Israel from the former Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/30 "2010-09-21T00:20:10Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > > [@Cyningablod](#): > > > > Yes, **Doxy** did cherry-pick and take quite a few verses out of context, and she ignored some mitigating details and alternate interpretations of some of those passages. As a very well educated ex-Christian who knows the Bible (and apologetics and hermeneutics) better than most, I was able to spot these right away. > > > > But the point remains: Modern Christians do, as a matter of demonstrable fact, pick and choose which Biblical mandates they’re going to adhere to and observe. There’s simply no denying this. > > So do Jews. We don’t read every word of the Torah as literally true. We interpret it with the aid of our tradition and commentaries (I understand the Catholics do something similar). We have a [huge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud) amount of commentary, and commentary on commentaries, on the Bible. > > You do, of course, realize that the Bible was not originally written in English? And that there are always issues of losing nuances of meaning when translating from one language to another? > > Yom Kippur was this past Saturday. On the afternoon of Yom Kippur, we read the book of Jonah in the synagogue. I learned something interesting from our new prayer book this year. The idea that Jonah was swallowed by a whale comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. In Hebrew, the term for the animal that swallowed Jonah is _dag gadol_, which is literally “big fish”. But the Greek term that it was translated to can also mean “whale”. The idea of Jonah being swallowed by a whale comes from that translation, not from the original Hebrew. > > Of course, some modern-day literalists get past this by saying some translation of the Bible was divinely inspired. I think Jack Chick is an example of someone who thinks the KJV was. I think the translation issues are one more reason why insisting on a literal interpretation of everything in the Bible is silly. > > > [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > > > Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. > > Yes. And note that there is a big difference between refraining from doing something (say, eating pork) and insisting that the law of the land forbid everybody from doing something. Those are two totally different things. If you go to Israel, you can find pork if you really want to. It’s not illegal to eat or sell it. Supposedly it is popular with recent immigrants to Israel from the former Soviet Union. I spend too much time on Facebook… I went searching for the “Like” button for this post! LOL 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/31 "2010-09-21T01:12:39Z")
I knew the word Doxy was a descriptive word for women and it didn’t take no Bob Heinlein to clue me in. (Doesn’t anyone read historical romance any more?) I think our new Doxy is way cool; anyone who can describe themselves as being as feminine as a cat in heat is okay. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/32 "2010-09-21T01:16:29Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > Oh Maaaaaaaaan ain’t this the shit!! 😃 Thanks Gukumatz!!! 😃 > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > A wild guess would also say the the OP is a Heinlein reader as well, although this is a WAG. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard use the word “doxy,” and even then it was to perpetrate a bad pun. > > Yes, originally I called myself “Heinlein’s Doxy” just because if he was still alive, I’d throw myself shamelessly at him! 😛 Good thing you’re not twins, then! 😃 Welcome, **Doxy**!! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/33 "2010-09-21T05:52:27Z")
> [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > If you are going to claim that one small part of the bible is the absolute last word on whether or not Bill & Ted can get married, then you sort of HAVE to accept that ALL of the bible is in effect. > > YEAH! Thank you for this post. Funny and nailed it right on the head. I am so sick of Christians using Leviticus 22 as proof that homosexuality is wrong. Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18. Two can play this game, kiddo. To Doxy, “slavery” allowed in Torah is usually more akin to indentured servitude, kosher dining was never required of righteous Gentiles, & mixed-fiber clothing was symbolic of Jewish ritual purity, also not a universal law. But I bet you know all this. This whole deal stinks of anti-Semitic contempt. And since you didn’t want to give New Testament ammo against gay sex, I’ll do the service- Romans 1:26-27 seems to be a condemnation of same-sex eroticism. Matthew 19: 4-6 is Christ explicitly speaking of marriage as being between man & woman. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/34 "2010-09-21T06:08:26Z")
Wow, talk about missing the forest for the trees. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/35 "2010-09-21T06:16:02Z")
Cats in heat… So you’re a hetero-doxy? Also, how you doin? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/36 "2010-09-21T09:12:57Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > First… I’m as female as a cat in heat. Half the cats in heat are male, yanow. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/37 "2010-09-21T09:58:29Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18. Isn’t that like saying that if you believe Remo Williams is fiction that you must believe New York doesn’t exist because it is in the same book? ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/38 "2010-09-21T10:59:24Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > > [@Skammer](#): > > > > Look at all the money and time I wasted on theology and biblical interpretation studies when I could have just had you cherry-pick verses out of any historic or textual context and tell me what they mean. Kinda like the gay-bashers do. > > I would welcome any differing opinion on the _interpretation_ of the quoted verses. > > Do you see any other way to interpret the following? > > KJV Lev. 11:10 > > “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:” > > KJV is not always easy to follow… let’s try the NAS: > > “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you,” I do. It also means that you octopus or sea-cucumber, or seal, or whale or frogs or (depending on how literal you’re feeling) seaweed. Basically anything that isn’t a fish. To say it only forbids eating shellfish is far too narrow. In fact, given it’s broad scope it wouldn’t eating the microscopic beasties count as an abomination before God? Swan in the sea and swallowed sea water? = SINNER! ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/39 "2010-09-21T12:50:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I knew the word Doxy was a descriptive word for women and it didn’t take no Bob Heinlein to clue me in. (Doesn’t anyone read historical romance any more?) > > I think our new Doxy is way cool; anyone who can describe themselves as being as feminine as a cat in heat is okay. Ahhh… Hysterical Romance… I remember it well! 🆒 I have to say, I haven’t read any of that since I became sexually active and realized that the books LIED! LOL :eek: 😃 (And no, I WON’T tell you when that was… it might change your opinion of me! LOL) > [@Polycarp](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > Oh Maaaaaaaaan ain’t this the shit!! 😃 Thanks Gukumatz!!! 😃 > > > > Yes, originally I called myself “Heinlein’s Doxy” just because if he was still alive, I’d throw myself shamelessly at him! 😛 > > Good thing you’re not twins, then! 😃 > > Welcome, **Doxy**!! Thanks for the welcome, Poly! 😃 But wouldn’t it be nice if we WERE twins?? You could be Laz on even days and I’d be Lor, then we could switch off on the odd days! 😃 > [@FriarTed](#): > > > [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > > > YEAH! Thank you for this post. Funny and nailed it right on the head. I am so sick of Christians using Leviticus 22 as proof that homosexuality is wrong. Anyone who says that gay marriage should be illegal because of Leviticus 22 is also supporting slavery and many other horrible things, as you showed. > > Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18. > > Two can play this game, kiddo. > > To Doxy, “slavery” allowed in Torah is usually more akin to indentured servitude, kosher dining was never required of righteous Gentiles, & mixed-fiber clothing was symbolic of Jewish ritual purity, also not a universal law. But I bet you know all this. This whole deal stinks of anti-Semitic contempt. I’m not anti-Semitic, but it’s interesting that you toss that out. :dubious: As far as the slavery… I’m well aware that the European/American slave trade changed the face of what was traditionally known as slavery. The first Africans brought to America were indentured servants (IS) and were freed after a certain number of years in service were accomplished just as all the IS were. They had it no better or worse than the Irish IS until the PTB decided there was more profit in never letting them go… They were easy to identify thanks to their unique skin color and facial characteristics and they had nowhere to run. But, that’s not really the point of this thread… (I’d love to see a thread develop on it though! This is a HUGELY fascinating topic all by itself! 😉 ) However, to get back on topic, whether you can see an eventual end of the servitude or not… if you cannot leave of your own free will, and you are another person’s “possession”… that’s an evil I can’t accept. The argument that “It was good enough for Grampa and it’s good enough for me” is lame, lame, lame. As far as the other Jewish laws… My point is that if a _Christian_ wants to hold up ONE OF THEM as a rallying cry… then he’d better be willing to hold up all of them. Since they (the Gentiles) adopted the Old Testament and have claimed it as their own, I mean. I can’t say with any degree of honesty that I know the Torah other than what was presented in the Old Testament. I’m sure there are lots of nuances and things that we just don’t “get” as a result. Therefore, I’m talking not so much about Torah, as I am about the Old Testament as adopted by Christians. I suppose I should have specified in the OP. But (and perhaps this is what you were meaning when you said “anti-Semitic”??) I just don’t think of Jews when I think of the **“Religious Right”** (who are, if you notice, the people I was addressing in the OP). Jews just don’t even make it onto my radar in that context. I think of those crazies that make a habit of shoving their particular brand of deity in your face… (everyone from those bible-waving Baptists to the freakazoids that crashed a couple of planes into the twin towers.) Never really met a proselytizing Jew before… :dubious: Although, since any is possible, I suppose they could exist. Now, I know several Jews that are more than happy to tell me what they believe IF I ASK THEM… but they don’t go around knocking on doors, so to speak. Personally, I think they’re all silly. Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu… the lot of 'em. Buddhism has something going for it… but I tend to like my fleshly life too much to ever really be Buddhist. Just can’t seem to develop that lack of desire so necessary to the philosophy. :dubious: > [@FriarTed](#): > > And since you didn’t want to give New Testament ammo against gay sex, I’ll do the service- Romans 1:26-27 seems to be a condemnation of same-sex eroticism. Matthew 19: 4-6 is Christ explicitly speaking of marriage as being between man & woman. > > You’re welcome. Thank-you. As far as New Testament ammo against gay marriage… go ahead. But I really believe that you and some of the others are proving my point. It’s all about which laws you want to obey and which ones you want to pretend don’t exist. I mean… if we want to get all technical… all those Episcopal and Methodist pastors that happen to tote a vagina and uterus around with them are in direct conflict with one of the “teachings” of the New Testament. Shoot… even those female Adult Sunday School teachers are in violation if they allow men to be in the class!! :eek: Which is worse? Letting Bill & Ted get married? Or having a female pastor officiate??? 😕 :eek: :dubious: > [@Autolycus](#): > > Cats in heat… So you’re a hetero-doxy? > > Also, how you doin? Total hetero… but pretty convinced my son is not. Although… he’s never said anything to me about it and I suppose it’s possible that he’s merely asexual rather than either hetero or homo. > [@Nava](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > First… I’m as female as a cat in heat. > > Half the cats in heat are male, yanow. Actually, I didn’t know that! I thought only females went into heat… :smack: Learn something new everyday I reckon. 🙂 > [@Baboonanza](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > I would welcome any differing opinion on the _interpretation_ of the quoted verses. > > > > Do you see any other way to interpret the following? > > > > KJV Lev. 11:10 > > > > “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:” > > > > KJV is not always easy to follow… let’s try the NAS: > > > > “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you,” > > I do. It also means that you octopus or sea-cucumber, or seal, or whale or frogs or (depending on how literal you’re feeling) seaweed. > > Basically anything that isn’t a fish. To say it only forbids eating shellfish is far too narrow. In fact, given it’s broad scope it wouldn’t eating the microscopic beasties count as an abomination before God? > > Swan in the sea and swallowed sea water? = SINNER! Oh, I agree with you 99.999%. 😃 Of course, I don’t think that octopus, sea cucumber and frogs are quite as popular on the Sea Food menu as shrimp and lobster and crab, do you? Not quite sure I agree with the whole “seaweed” inclusion though… I mean, after all… the law does specify “creature” and that implies “animal.” Thank you all for your intelligent discourse. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/40 "2010-09-21T13:06:33Z")
Sounds like the OP is ripped right out of a page I saw while cruising around in [StumbleUpon.com](http://StumbleUpon.com). **F - Next time do your own work.** And emoticons are infantile, especially in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388.md?page=3)