# Just because I'm sick and tired of all the Gay-bashing done by the "Religious Right"

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [September 20, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388 "2010-09-20T12:19:53Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/41 "2010-09-21T13:09:19Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> Thank you all for your intelligent discourse. 🆒

That’ll be enough of that. No intelligent discourse in the Pit - where’s the foul language, where’s the outrage, this is far to calm for the pit! :mad:

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/42 "2010-09-21T13:16:30Z")

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> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> Sounds like the OP is ripped right out of a page I saw while cruising around in [StumbleUpon.com](http://StumbleUpon.com).
> 
> **F - Next time do your own work.**
> 
> And emoticons are infantile, especially in the Pit.

Oh goodness… I’m so sorry. Should I have posted a bibliography? :rolleyes: 😉

> [@otternell](#):
>
> > [@Doxy](#):
> >
> > Thank you all for your intelligent discourse. 🆒
> 
> That’ll be enough of that. No intelligent discourse in the Pit - where’s the foul language, where’s the outrage, this is far to calm for the pit! :mad:

Oops… didn’t realize that. I’ll try harder next time to be an unreasonable and contentious cunt.

I’ve been told I do that quite well. 😛

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**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/43 "2010-09-21T13:18:09Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> Oops… didn’t realize that. I’ll try harder next time to be an unreasonable and contentious cunt.
> 
> I’ve been told I do that quite well. 😛

Well now, that’s a bit better! You’ll fit in here just fine! Welcome! 😃

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**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/44 "2010-09-21T13:53:06Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> I’m not anti-Semitic, but it’s interesting that you toss that out. :dubious:

I certainly don’t consider criticism of the Bible to be inherently anti-Semitic. It can be done in an anti-Semitic way, but I don’t think that’s what **Doxy** is doing here.

> [@](#):
>
> The argument that “It was good enough for Grampa and it’s good enough for me” is lame, lame, lame.

Lots of people do things because they have happy, nostalgic memories of doing them as children, or of their parents or grandparents doing them. Some atheists celebrate religious holidays (especially Christmas and Passover) for this reason. Some people eat certain foods because they’re nostalgic. Nothing wrong with that. Now, when you try to force other people to do stuff because it’s what Grampa did, _then_ there’s a problem.

> [@](#):
>
> I suppose I should have specified in the OP. But (and perhaps this is what you were meaning when you said “anti-Semitic”??) I just don’t think of Jews when I think of the **“Religious Right”** (who are, if you notice, the people I was addressing in the OP). Jews just don’t even make it onto my radar in that context.

Jews are generally not big on getting our laws written into secular law. Having religious laws as part of the law of the land has so often not worked out well for us, it makes a lot of us nervous when Christians want to mix secular and religious law. Y’see, some of them also tend to have a problem with people not being Christian, and that’s what we want to do.

> [@](#):
>
> I think of those crazies that make a habit of shoving their particular brand of deity in your face… (everyone from those bible-waving Baptists to the freakazoids that crashed a couple of planes into the twin towers.) Never really met a proselytizing Jew before… :dubious: Although, since any is possible, I suppose they could exist. Now, I know several Jews that are more than happy to tell me what they believe IF I ASK THEM… but they don’t go around knocking on doors, so to speak.

There are [proselytizing Jews](http://www.chabad.org/). They proselytize to other Jews and try to get us to observe more mitzvot (Jewish laws). Some of them often hang out near the supermarket I go to. Before they start talking to someone about Judaism, they will ask if they are Jewish.

> [@](#):
>
> Actually, I didn’t know that! I thought only females went into heat… :smack:  
> Learn something new everyday I reckon. 🙂

No, you were right the first time. [Only female animals go into heat.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrous_cycle)

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**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/45 "2010-09-21T14:01:14Z")

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> [@Dante](#):
>
> This is looks like the kind of post **lurking guest** would write if he started taking his meds again.
> 
> Cogent and well-referenced. Nicely done.

[Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)

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**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/46 "2010-09-21T14:09:45Z")

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> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> > [@Dante](#):
> >
> > This is looks like the kind of post **lurking guest** would write if he started taking his meds again.
> > 
> > Cogent and well-referenced. Nicely done.
> 
> [Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)

I’m familiar with both the letter to Dr. Laura, and the passages quoted (including the NT ones).

I maintain the OP was sufficiently original. But I’m with you on the smilies.

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**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/47 "2010-09-21T14:24:41Z")

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> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> > [@Dante](#):
> >
> > This is looks like the kind of post **lurking guest** would write if he started taking his meds again.
> > 
> > Cogent and well-referenced. Nicely done.
> 
> [Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)

I had not seen that before. I want to own a Canadian too, dammit. [pouts]

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/48 "2010-09-21T14:34:30Z")

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> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> > [@Doxy](#):
> >
> > I’m not anti-Semitic, but it’s interesting that you toss that out. :dubious:
> 
> I certainly don’t consider criticism of the Bible to be inherently anti-Semitic. It can be done in an anti-Semitic way, but I don’t think that’s what **Doxy** is doing here.
> 
> Lots of people do things because they have happy, nostalgic memories of doing them as children, or of their parents or grandparents doing them. Some atheists celebrate religious holidays (especially Christmas and Passover) for this reason. Some people eat certain foods because they’re nostalgic. **Nothing wrong with that. Now, when you try to force other people to do stuff because it’s what Grampa did, _then_ there’s a problem.**

Point taken. (Rats… there I go being all polite and shit… I’m gonna get in trouble for sure now! LOL)  
And you better stop being reasonable and intelligent too, Anne… ! 😛

> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> Jews are generally not big on getting our laws written into secular law. Having religious laws as part of the law of the land has so often not worked out well for us, it makes a lot of us nervous when Christians want to mix secular and religious law. Y’see, some of them also tend to have a problem with people not being Christian, and that’s what we want to do.
> 
> There are [proselytizing Jews](http://www.chabad.org/). They proselytize to other Jews and try to get us to observe more mitzvot (Jewish laws). Some of them often hang out near the supermarket I go to. Before they start talking to someone about Judaism, they will ask if they are Jewish.

That is interesting!! So, do they bother you as much as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons do me? 😉

> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> > [@Doxy](#):
> >
> > Actually, I didn’t know that! I thought only females went into heat… :smack:  
> > Learn something new everyday I reckon. 🙂
> 
> No, you were right the first time. [Only female animals go into heat.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrous_cycle)

I think male elephants have a similar cycle though too… (went to google) and yup. The go into something called “Musth” once a year.

> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> > [@Dante](#):
> >
> > This is looks like the kind of post **lurking guest** would write if he started taking his meds again.
> > 
> > Cogent and well-referenced. Nicely done.
> 
> [Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)

> [@Dante](#):
>
> > [@Sitnam](#):
> >
> > [Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)
> 
> I’m familiar with both the letter to Dr. Laura, and the passages quoted (including the NT ones).
> 
> I maintain the OP was sufficiently original. But I’m with you on the smilies.

I never tried to pretend that it was “all me”. I freely admit that I didn’t do all the preliminary research. Happily, even in scientific research a person isn’t required to start from scratch each time. But if it will make you feel better, I’ll happily add a bibliography to the OP.

All the commentary on the passages, however, are original to me. The only thing taken from “Why Can’t I Own A Canadian” were the Bible verses.

…and I ain’t givin’ up muh damn smilies!!! I like ‘em too much!!! Why I practically carry ‘em around wif me in muh pocketbook durin’ tha daytime jus’ so’s I kin pass ‘em out to all ‘em air sad an’ sorry lookin’ folks on tha street! 😛

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/49 "2010-09-21T14:37:53Z")

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> [@otternell](#):
>
> > [@Sitnam](#):
> >
> > [Just in case you thought it was all her.](http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2TekJL/www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)
> 
> I had not seen that before. I want to own a Canadian too, dammit. [pouts]

No, man… you don’t want no stinkin’ Canadian! (Well… unless you live in like … Montana or something.) They’re all cold-weather people!  
Trust me… Mexicans the way to go!  
I live in Georgia and the heat down here would kill your average Canadian before the first day of Summer!! :eek:  
On Edit: I just tried to add a biblio to the OP in an effort to assist Sitnam with removing the sand from his vagina… but it wouldn’t let me. Sorry Dude! :rolleyes:

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**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/50 "2010-09-21T14:53:03Z")

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**Doxy** , I’ll send you a picture of what I look like _with a shirt on_ if you’ll limit your emoticons to once every fourth or fifth post.

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/51 "2010-09-21T14:53:16Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> > [@Little\_Bird](#):
> >
> > Very insightful, **Skammer**. Do you think, and really I’m just spitballing here, that maybe that was the entire point of the op? I dunno, he was being so subtle about it…
> 
> She. I’m a woman.
> 
> And no, the entire point of the OP was exactly what I stated to be.  
> But thanks for weighing in. :rolleyes:

Wow… talk about a knee-jerk response.

I offer my apologies to Little Bird.  
I really can be quite a bitch at times.  
I’m sorry I was snarky to you.

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/52 "2010-09-21T15:03:01Z")

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> [@descamisado](#):
>
> **Doxy** , I’ll send you a picture of what I look like _with a shirt on_ if you’ll limit your emoticons to once every fourth or fifth post.

Nope. No deal.

Now if you want to up the ante and prove that you really ARE descamisado… I’ll reconsider! 😛  
Enséñame las tetas, Baby!

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**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/53 "2010-09-21T15:24:06Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> > [@Anne\_Neville](#):
> >
> > There are proselytizing Jews. They proselytize to other Jews and try to get us to observe more mitzvot (Jewish laws).
> 
> That is interesting!! So, do they bother you as much as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons do me? 😉

No, they’re not that bad. They don’t come to your house, for one thing (or at least they’ve never come to mine), so you always have the option of walking away.

Incidentally, I did once get some door-to-door missionaries to go away by telling them we’re Jewish.

Once, at Hanukkah, Chabad were outside the grocery store cooking and giving out latkes (they were also giving out menorahs and candles for people who didn’t have them). AFAIK, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have anything as yummy as that. That is a high bar, though, since there aren’t that many things yummier than good latkes. (I’m now envisioning Mormon missionaries going door-to-door giving out Jello, and I’m scared.)

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**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/54 "2010-09-21T15:54:54Z")

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> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> > [@Doxy](#):
> >
> > That is interesting!! So, do they bother you as much as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons do me? 😉
> 
> No, they’re not that bad. They don’t come to your house, for one thing (or at least they’ve never come to mine), so you always have the option of walking away.
> 
> Incidentally, I did once get some door-to-door missionaries to go away by telling them we’re Jewish.
> 
> Once, at Hanukkah, Chabad were outside the grocery store cooking and giving out latkes (they were also giving out menorahs and candles for people who didn’t have them). AFAIK, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have anything as yummy as that. That is a high bar, though, since there aren’t that many things yummier than good latkes. (I’m now envisioning Mormon missionaries going door-to-door giving out Jello, and I’m scared.)

I must find out what these things called “latkes” are…  
_cue dramatic spy movie soundtrack_  
My ex-mother-in-law (a Christian of the Methodist persuasion) used to talk about her father always insisting that they leave the door open for Elijah… ??

And that they had to keep two refrigerators. One for meat, one for milk. Also that dishes had to be washed in a very specific way… (I don’t recall what that way was.)

While she never actually came out and said anything, I got the impression that her family were converts to Christianity at some point in the relatively recent past…

… and she gave me a door harp as a house-warming gift. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/55 "2010-09-21T16:34:44Z")

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> [@Doxy](#):
>
> I must find out what these things called “latkes” are…  
> _cue dramatic spy movie soundtrack_

They’re [fried potato pancakes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_pancake).

> [@](#):
>
> My ex-mother-in-law (a Christian of the Methodist persuasion) used to talk about her father always insisting that they leave the door open for Elijah… ??
> 
> And that they had to keep two refrigerators. One for meat, one for milk.

Those sound like Jewish traditions. Though leaving the door open for Elijah is only done at one point in the Passover Seder, and keeping separate fridges for milk and meat is pretty hard-core kosher. Separate dishes is pretty normal, but separate fridges or ovens is really hard-core. I have separate milk and meat dishes, but not separate fridges or ovens.

> [@](#):
>
> Also that dishes had to be washed in a very specific way… (I don’t recall what that way was.)

That may just be pickiness about how household chores are done, or a cleanliness hang-up. Those are common among Jews and non-Jews. A lot of married couples fight over the right way to load the dishwasher or wash the dishes. My (non-Jewish- I converted as an adult) mother insists that dishes must be washed in the sink, then run through the dishwasher. If any of these steps is skipped, the dishes are not acceptably clean. She will be :mad: at you if you put away unclean dishes, even if they look perfectly clean to the untrained eye.

In my household, the main effect of keeping kosher on washing dishes is that there are separate milk and meat dish brushes, dirty milk and meat dishes cannot be together in the same sink (we have a double sink), and milk and meat dishes cannot be in the dishwasher at the same time.

More Neville household dish rules: Anything that can go through the dishwasher must do so in order to be clean. That’s something I picked up from my mother, though I don’t hand-wash the dishes first like she does. The only acceptable dishwasher detergent is one that advertises that you don’t have to clean the dishes first. Those have nothing to do with keeping kosher. Not all hang-ups having to do with dishes do, even for people who do keep kosher.

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**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/56 "2010-09-21T17:25:27Z")

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> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18.

Well, this is a nice fresh piece of idiocy.

Pointing out the other “horrid and silly” laws shows that it is ridiculous to use the bible as a moral authority. It’s not saying it’s exactly wrong on every single issue, and the opposite of what is says is always true.

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**Author:** ![EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac8455/32.png) [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EVERYNAMEISTAKEN)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/57 "2010-09-21T21:22:12Z")

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> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18.
> 
> Two can play this game, kiddo.

Not at all. The point is that just because something is said to be wrong in the bible doesn’t mean it’s necessarily okay, but it also doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily not okay. We should look at each thing based on its own merits, not based on what the bible says about it.

Homosexuality is okay because it harms no one.

Child sacrifice harms kids who are sacrificed.

Incest harms offspring who could be born with horrible deformities.

Whether or not bestiality is okay is debatable. Certainly it’s not okay to force sex on any being who doesn’t want it.

No need to get patronizing.

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**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/58 "2010-09-21T21:23:48Z")

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> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18.
> 
> Two can play this game, kiddo.

This is the **STUPIDEST** goddamn thing I’ve read recently (and I’ve been reading a lot of FoxNews scrolling updates.)

Friar, do you _seriously_ not understand that the non-religious/humanists have good, practical _reasons_ for holding adultery, child sacrifice, bestiality, and incest to be morally reprehensible, _above and apart from the Bible_? Here’s a clear explanation for you, in case you’re having a hard time figuring it out:

Adultery, child sacrifice, bestiality, and incest **HURT INNOCENT BEINGS** and **CAUSE REAL SOCIETAL STRIFE** (as opposed to manufactured societal strife of the homophobic variety–a good example here is the discord in marriages wrought by adultery). Adultery hurts at the very least, the partner who is cheated on. Child sacrifice hurts the child. Bestiality is viewed as a de facto form of rape, as animals cannot give meaningful consent (and doubtless, it hurts a lot of them, a lot of the time). Incest hurts the entire family.

I ask you: Whom does consenting adult homosexuality hurt?

See, the thing is, in pointing out the genuinely bad stuff that Leviticus 18 prohibits, you think you have a clever retort to us godless folks who point out the bizarre moral mandates in there that y’all don’t follow. But you _don’t_, because we have clear, logical, non-circular, external reasons for our moral beliefs, apart from Leviticus.

Apologetics FAIL.

> [@](#):
>
> To Doxy, “slavery” allowed in Torah is usually more akin to indentured servitude,

“_But your honor, I wasn’t **hitting** her; her face just kept getting in the way of my fist!_” :rolleyes:

> [@](#):
>
> And since you didn’t want to give New Testament ammo against gay sex, I’ll do the service- Romans 1:26-27 seems to be a condemnation of same-sex eroticism. Matthew 19: 4-6 is Christ explicitly speaking of marriage as being between man & woman.
> 
> You’re welcome.

Indeed, **Doxy** was mistaken. The New Testament does give “ammo” against gay sex. One of the many, many reasons to utterly disregard it as the nonsense that it is.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/59 "2010-09-21T21:25:08Z")

</div>

> [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#):
>
> > [@FriarTed](#):
> >
> > Everyone who says tosses out the ban on male-male sex because of the other ‘horrid or silly’ laws in Leviticus is also saying that adultery, child-sacrifice, bestiality & incest are OK- it’s in the same section of laws- Chapter 18.
> > 
> > Two can play this game, kiddo.
> 
> Not at all. The point is that just because something is said to be wrong in the bible doesn’t mean it’s necessarily okay, but it also doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily not okay. We should look at each thing based on its own merits, not based on what the bible says about it.
> 
> Homosexuality is okay because it harms no one.
> 
> Child sacrifice harms kids who are sacrificed.
> 
> Incest harms offspring who could be born with horrible deformities.
> 
> Whether or not bestiality is okay is debatable. Certainly it’s not okay to force sex on any being who doesn’t want it.
> 
> No need to get patronizing.

Interesting.  
But just to clarify lemme ax you one thing…  
Is incest OK if you wear a condom?? 😛

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-im-sick-and-tired-of-all-the-gay-bashing-done-by-the-religious-right/554388/60 "2010-09-21T21:27:13Z")

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> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> To Doxy, “slavery” allowed in Torah is usually more akin to indentured servitude […]

Then why, pray tell-, do translations of the Bible not render the Hebrew word as “indentured servitude”?  
:dubious:

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