# Just because it was taught in school doesn't make it appropriate to post **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 26, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966 "2021-05-26T17:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Summerday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Summerday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Summerday)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/62 "2021-05-28T11:58:01Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I wonder if it’s been said casually around women, or if they self-censor, in the exact same way those same guys wouldn’t have said it in front of a woman 40 years ago. Superficially, that feels “considerate”, but it shows there’s an understanding of how offensive it is, but no reflection on the dynamic. Joking about raping women and sluts in a casual manner whenever they aren’t around just intensifies the boy’s club vibe. > > Actually, that’s a pretty good test. If an old tech rattled the mnemonic out in front of just anyone–clients, women, women-clients, etc–then I think you could make an argument that it has become more of a string of syllables than a string of words. Still shouldn’t be used, but it’s a different sort of thing. But I don’t think that’s true. I think most old tech’s mothers have never heard them say it. Because it’s the sexist and, in some forms, racist, jokes that make it memorable. The whole point of a mnemonic is to punch. Really well said; I completely agree. I’ve been in those types of situations at work where the men make some big deal about censoring themselves around me which comes across to me as infantilizing and condescending, but I somehow feel that I should be thankful/appreciative that they aren’t saying awful things to my face…even though I shouldn’t have to hear offensive things at work in the first place. It really just puts me on edge and metaphorically separates me from the group…and just makes it harder to focus and feel comfortable working with the group…while the guys almost seem to be patting themselves on the back for doing the bare minimum which is to not say offensive things at work. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/63 "2021-05-28T14:07:11Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > It was still taught in some schools up into the early 2000s though. And is still taught in schools that only have old textbooks, to this day. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/64 "2021-05-28T15:43:06Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > And is still taught in schools that only have old textbooks, to this day. Hm. Google books [seems to think](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&channel=ts&tbm=bks&q=%22Bad+Boys+Ravish+Our+Young+Girls+But+Violet+Gives+Willingly%22&oq=%22Bad+Boys+Ravish+Our+Young+Girls+But+Violet+Gives+Willingly%22&aqs=heirloom-srp) that two modern books have the “bad boys ravish” form, but you can’t actually see them in the text. Quite a few hits on the “bad boys rape” and “black boys rape” versions, both used directly in old books and complained about in new ones. And one modern book on guitar amplifiers uses the “black boys rape” one directly! ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/65 "2021-05-28T16:29:33Z")
My husband was taught “big boys ruin” in tech school (high school level) in the last 80s. So even by then it was often dialed back. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/66 "2021-05-28T23:41:45Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > There is (of course) an XKCD about [this](https://xkcd.com/992/). And even there, it’s not actually repeated, because the actual phrase adds nothing. Although even XKCD which is one of my faves could not get through six mnemonics without having women, sex, and male control thereof appear in two of them. Or maybe it was three of six depending on how exactly you want to count. This whole bit about two(+) genders and sex is apparently quite hard to keep under wraps. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/67 "2021-05-29T00:22:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Although even XKCD which is one of my faves could not get through six mnemonics without having women, sex, and male control thereof appear in two of them I only see one that has all three of those? And frankly it seems more sacrilegious than sexist to me ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/68 "2021-05-29T00:56:10Z")
Sex isn’t the problem. Saying people like good sex isn’t the problem. Joking about rape and sluts is the problem. I don’t find the XKCD ones offensive. It’s okay to be dirty. But not rapey. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/69 "2021-05-29T00:57:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I only see one that has all three of those? It’s a stretch even to call it “male control.” In any heterosexual relationship, if there’s been no intercourse and the woman claims her new pregnancy is from God, the dude has a right to ask questions. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/70 "2021-05-29T01:11:45Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > There is (of course) an XKCD about [this](https://xkcd.com/992/). And even there, it’s not actually repeated, because the actual phrase adds nothing. Tangentially, I wonder if there’s an xkcd about “There’s an xkcd about that.” That sort of recursive metacommentary seems like something that would appeal to Randall Munroe. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/71 "2021-05-29T06:46:02Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > At work though, if you’re an old engineer working in a building with a lot of other old engineers, we all grew up with that phrase and to us it’s just a stupid mnemonic. Might be different in a building with younger engineers but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive. I find this depressing. I’d like to think that regardless of whether women or people of color are around, old white engineers would be so aware of and appalled by the phrasing, no matter how familiar, that they just wouldn’t use it, period. It shouldn’t be a matter of “Uh-oh!There’s someone here who might be offended by my saying that!” It should be a matter of “I’m not going to repeat that old mnemonic because it’s really disgusting.” Very discouraging. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/72 "2021-05-29T08:13:34Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s okay to be dirty. But not rapey. This. Well, rapey and/or racist. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > if there’s been no intercourse and the woman claims her new pregnancy is from God, the dude has a right to ask questions. A meta-joke is that, technically, God _is_ an upstairs neighbour. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/73 "2021-05-30T13:37:24Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Might be different in a building with younger engineers but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive. Really? Seriously? As young EE students in the early 80s we knew back then that it was offensive. EE had a pretty sad history of misogyny as my older sister can tell you. She spend her entire career fighting discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/74 "2021-05-31T06:19:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > > > Yep, I goofed. Sorry about that. It is/was such a common phrase in electrical engineering / tech that I had become desensitized to it. I apologize. > > So are you going to update the complete non-apology modnote? Asking again, @engineer_comp_geek - are you going to update the mod note? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/75 "2021-05-31T12:29:50Z")
Updated. Apologies for the delay. I have a lot going on in real life at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/76 "2021-05-31T12:31:29Z")
No worries, getting there in the end is what counts. Thanks for updating it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/77 "2021-05-31T13:01:08Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > but I have heard the phrase spoken casually around our office within the last couple of years and no one thought it was offensive. Wow, I find that shocking. I would have thought there might be a few women and people of color knocking around these days, even in engineering firms. And thanks for updating. I was shocked by that, and didn’t feel it appropriate to disagree in thread. (And while i thought about taking it to the mod loop, i find that takes a lot more energy, especially if I’m on my phone, and i, too, have had a lot going on in real life.) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/78 "2021-05-31T13:20:01Z")
I appreciate the update, but I want to point out that “it is considered offensive today” is sort of a weasel phrase. It suggests 1. It wasn’t offensive back in the day, when of course it was. You didn’t say it in front of your mother or your wife or your daughter. It’s just being crude towards women was more widely acceptable among men. Did you run home from tech school and tell your mom the clever mnemonic you learned? 2. “Considered” sorta implies “considered by some, the sensitive ones”, as if that’s still open to debate, or just a passing fad. I’m mentioning these things because I think you have a habit of qualifying mod notes with these sorts of terms. It’s “let’s everyone get along and agree to disagree” language. The problem is that it comes across as humoring the over sensitive, like you are saying to the other guys “I know, I know, I know, but this is how we have to talk in front of women” . To put it in different terms, if someone had dropped “n\*\*\*\*\* toes” into a discussion of Brazil notes, would you have said “that name is considered offensive today”? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966/79 "2021-05-31T20:24:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > There is (of course) an XKCD about [this](https://xkcd.com/992/). “Thank God My Kinky Mother” may just be a Navy mnemonic, but I’m surprised he didn’t know “Camels Often Sit”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-it-was-taught-in-school-doesnt-make-it-appropriate-to-post/942966.md?page=3)