# Just because one side is prevailing over the other doesn't mean it's not a debate, Tomndebb **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169 "2017-07-26T15:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/1 "2017-07-26T15:32:11Z")
You just tossed two of my threads into The BBQ Pit, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20371560&posted=1#post20371560) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831880), because you don’t see a debate. What would make this worthy of “debate” status for you? Both address a current issue, both have two(or more) sides to take, both have people giving opposing opinions about the issue at hand-what am I missing here? Not enough people weighing in on one of the sides? edited to add:“previaling” should be “prevailing” in the title. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/2 "2017-07-26T15:49:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > edited to add:“previaling” should be “prevailing” in the title. Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/3 "2017-07-26T15:57:00Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/4 "2017-07-26T16:13:49Z")
Heh–I was just coming to ATMB to say the same thing. As I said in one of the threads: The title sets out the debate. Hurricane has taken one side; others have taken the other. Folks are citing evidence to support their position. Folks clearly are participating in the discussion in Great Debates. This is not a good move; please return it to GD. Since then, Hurricane has dropped out of the thread due to its move. This move does nothing to foster communication. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/5 "2017-07-26T16:17:49Z")
There was no real debate in either thread - just look at the first replies, all slams on Trump with no real contribution to any actual debate. Blame Dopers, not the Mods. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/6 "2017-07-26T16:23:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You just tossed two of my threads into The BBQ Pit, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20371560&posted=1#post20371560) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831880), because you don’t see a debate. > What would make this worthy of “debate” status for you? Both address a current issue, both have two(or more) sides to take, both have people giving opposing opinions about the issue at hand-what am I missing here? Not enough people weighing in on one of the sides? > > edited to add:“previaling” should be “prevailing” in the title. Did you email the moderator privately before posting this thread? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/7 "2017-07-26T16:23:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There was no real debate in either thread - just look at the first replies, all slams on Trump with no real contribution to any actual debate. Blame Dopers, not the Mods. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/8 "2017-07-26T16:23:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You just tossed two of my threads into The BBQ Pit, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20371560&posted=1#post20371560) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831880), because you don’t see a debate. How is it _your_ thread? **iiandyiiii** started the first one you linked to. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/9 "2017-07-26T16:23:52Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There was no real debate in either thread - just look at the first replies, all slams on Trump with no real contribution to any actual debate. Blame Dopers, not the Mods. Again: there were folks using cites to reference evidence to support their positions. That’s what a debate is. Criticizing Trump, whether you call it a slam or not, is a legitimate thing to do in a debate. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/10 "2017-07-26T16:38:23Z")
The transgender thread was at least straddling the line of a rant. There wasn’t much (if any) debate, it was just people bitching about it. The faint whiff of debate started _after_ it was moved. The Boy Scout thread seemed clearly a debate, and I agree it shouldn’t have been moved. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/11 "2017-07-26T16:40:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again: there were folks using cites to reference evidence to support their positions. That’s not true in the transgender thread before the move and only belatedly true in the other. In the transgender thread, there were no cites beyond the OP before the thread was moved to the Pit. In the Scout thread, it took until post #14, and that wasn’t a cite to support a position but to post the BSA’s response to Trump. There was no debate, so GD was not the appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/12 "2017-07-26T16:43:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That’s not true in the transgender thread before the move and only belatedly true in the other. The transgender thread was moved less than two hours after it started–barely enough time for the obvious debate to get going. > [@](#): > > In the Scout thread, it took until post #14, and that wasn’t a cite to support a position but to post the BSA’s response to Trump. > > There was no debate, so GD was not the appropriate forum. There was clearly debate. Did you not read Hurricane’s posts, and the responses to it, and the cites raised? Saying “there was no debate” is objectively incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/13 "2017-07-26T16:46:10Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Did you email the moderator privately before posting this thread? Why would that matter? I’m not seeing this to be so different from any number of ATMB threads. As for the OPs, the Transgender thread was, as noted, started by **iiandyiiii** , not **Czarcasm**. A minor issue that does not change the question, but just for the record. And that thread was nothing but a rant from the get-go. How could you think it was GD-worthy? The other thread, IMO, looked like a rant dressed in GD clothing, to borrow a metaphor. And it was Godwinized pretty quickly-- it only took 9 posts to play the Hitler card. Then it looked more like a “let’s gang up on **HurricaneDitka** ” thread than anything else. I’m not surprised it was moved to The Pit. There were mod notes aimed towards at least 5 people to stop taking personal potshots at that poster. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/14 "2017-07-26T16:54:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The other thread, IMO, looked like a rant dressed in GD clothing, to borrow a metaphor. And it was Godwinized pretty quickly-- it only took 9 posts to play the Hitler card. Then it looked more like a “let’s gang up on **HurricaneDitka** ” thread than anything else. I’m not surprised it was moved to The Pit. There were mod notes aimed towards at least 5 people to stop taking personal potshots at that poster. And this differs from most GD threads…how? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/15 "2017-07-26T16:58:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is it _your_ thread? **iiandyiiii** started the first one you linked to. :dubious: You are correct-That’s what I get for rushing a post. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/16 "2017-07-26T16:58:45Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > And this differs from most GD threads…how? 😉 Maybe we can just turn the whole MB into The Pit for the duration. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/17 "2017-07-26T17:25:15Z")
The transgender-ban thread was meant to be a debate – and it was (and still is) to some degree. Since it got moved, I used some Pit language, but it was meant to be a substantive criticism of this policy. It wasn’t meant to be merely a rant. That’s a new policy that I think can reasonably be debated, even if I’m angry about it and expressed some anger. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/18 "2017-07-26T17:53:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe we can just turn the whole MB into The Pit for the duration. 🙂 Yeah, that way people that are on the losing side of the debate can avoid having to defend their position by claiming a fake “high road” of not wanting to be in a BBQ Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/19 "2017-07-26T17:54:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The transgender-ban thread was meant to be a debate – and it was (and still is) to some degree. Since it got moved, I used some Pit language, but it was meant to be a substantive criticism of this policy. > > It wasn’t meant to be merely a rant. That’s a new policy that I think can reasonably be debated, even if I’m angry about it and expressed some anger. Don’t say I [never did anything for you.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20372010#post20372010)😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169/20 "2017-07-26T18:12:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, that way people that are on the losing side of the debate can avoid having to defend their position by claiming a fake “high road” of not wanting to be in a BBQ Pit thread. Well, [that didn’t take long, did it?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20371570&postcount=149) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-because-one-side-is-prevailing-over-the-other-doesnt-mean-its-not-a-debate-tomndebb/792169.md?page=2)