# Just 'cause I'm stupid doesn't make it right! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056 "2003-12-05T00:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/61 "2003-12-10T14:29:25Z")
**Martiju** , I was rather far down the “rebate road” at that point and I certainly wasn’t looking for exclusions (obviously). And, remember, there is only one cable internet provider for miles around, and it was not participating. In the future I will be more aware of such things. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/62 "2003-12-10T14:40:04Z")
No problem - I was just correcting your statement above (should have quoted before - sorry) saying: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaddyTimesTwo \* > \*\*Closer reading of the fine print would have prevented any problem here, but I don’t think best Buy should require to bring a lawyer with you to get a rebate. \*\* That was obviously a bit of exaggeration and I was pointing out the contradiction. Still, alls well that ends well eh? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![R\_inDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@R\_inDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R_inDog)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/63 "2003-12-10T14:56:59Z")
Yeah, my post was more directed at **Guinastasia** than you, **TaxGuy**. **DTT** not only acted decently through this thing, but even made the case for his own mistake. And it wasn’t even his fault, dammit. It was a patently bogus business practice that his Best Buy location made good on. The only people to blame were the people higher up in management who thought it better to earn a few bucks than vet the locations where the provider incentive weren’t pertinent (whether that’s “wrong” or not I’ll leave up to the business majors). You guys who think **DDT** was a tool and idiot, I guess you read every single letter of every EULA you come across before agreeing, or hold up the line at Circuit City while you read all the tiny print on the back of the receipts/rebate forms before signing the credit card slip, irritating the fuck out of all the people behind you? If so, not only are you the most anal retentive people on the planet but you must waste hours of time each week better spent doing Anything. If not, you’re hypocrites. You can _maybe_ blame **DDT** for not asking the right question of the salesmen, but blaming him for not reading everything put in front of him (and size of text is irrelevant)… you gotta be kidding. Really: Try and keep track of all the end-user/customer legalese that’s printed on receipts, rebates, agreements, etc. nowadays. Some amount of trust on our part is required, and if we feel we’ve had that trust broken we can feel free to not to do business with that party again, just as **DDT** originally thought. I have to trust that sub-paragraph B on the back of my Jewel receipt doesn’t require I pay a $5 service fee if I should try and return bad meat, because I ain’t gonna read it. (I apologize for my “you should apologize” thing, however. Always feel like a prick when I say something like that, and somewhat prissy and petty. I should have left it at “you guys are being jerks.”) ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/64 "2003-12-10T14:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally by **DDT** _ > > I was mad at Best Buy because I felt the ads were misleading. Closer reading of the fine print would have prevented any problem here, but I don’t think best Buy should require to bring a lawyer with you to get a rebate. You said earlier you hadn’t even really looked at the ad before going to the store, so how can you now say it was misleading? You DIDN’T USE THE AD! \<=== Notice the large capital letters. You assumed something (which most of us consider a reasonable assumption) that turned out to be wrong. It happens. But that doesn’t make it anyone’s fault but your own. You weren’t misled by the ad because you didn’t look at the ad. By the way: If you, the person actually getting the rebate, couldn’t be bothered to read the fine print on the rebate, why in the world do you expect a minimum wage sales clerk to have read it? Refer to **Martiju’s** post about large letters and needing a lawyer. > [@](#): > > _Originally by **DDT** _ > > I threw some blame at Insight because the BB clerk said Insight used to participate but not any more, at least in this area. Insight is still part of the advertising, so they must participate somewhere other than here, and I wonder why the quit locally. Insight decided it wasn’t in their best interest to participate, yet Best Buy still advertised it and the Best Buy drones still sold it. So because Insight backed out, they are to blame? I’m still not following this line of reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/65 "2003-12-10T15:54:42Z")
The clerk made it seem like Insight agreed to participate and then changed their minds. Why in the world, **cmosdes** , would I expect to have to read a rebate form for exclusions when I asked the clerk about it and he hands me all the paperwork? I’ll say it again for the slow readers, I accept my part in this fiasco. I made assumptions, I didn’t read the paperwork completely, and I was mistaken. In the interest of customer service, Best Buy gave me the money anyway. And the ad for a free modem (after rebate and service installation) and including Insight was again in the local paper last Sunday. Best Buy will probably be excercising some customer service muscle in the coming weeks. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/66 "2003-12-10T16:26:26Z")
Jesus people, he’s accepted responsibility for his part! It’s not like he’s still ranting and raving. Honestly, it appears that some of you are just being bullies now. **cmodes** , you’re admitting that it was a reasonable assumption for him to make, yet you’re _still_ riding his ass about it! What gives? People don’t read every detail on every form when buying electronics equipment. Have you all _seen_ how many receipts/forms they give you? I agree with **R@indog** , unless you sit up there and read every detail of every form, holding up the line (to which people like **Guin** , would bitch about as well, turning this into a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation) you’re just being a big ass hypocrite. We’ve all agreed **DTT** made a _reasonable_ assumption. That assumption was wrong. Best Buy corrected it for him. He’s greatful. He’ll continue to shop there. Now back the fuck off. [sub]Now _I_ need a hug…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/67 "2003-12-10T19:01:53Z")
**DTT** - Did you ask the clerk if Insight was participating in the rebate or did you just ask if there is a rebate? It makes a huge difference. I agree you have a right to feel duped. What I don’t agree with is that you are absolved of all responsibility simply because you made some reasonable assumptions. You had an opportunity to be sure, but passed it up. **lezlers** - What gives is that he is ranting about Insight and Best Buy when, in fact, up until his last post he essentially denied any responsibility. The closest he came was saying “If I had read the rebate forms, I could have avoided this.” But you and others have said that reading the rebate forms is not important. Further, you and others claim reading the forms makes you anal. Therefore, it amounts to saying he has no responsibility since those forms are for suckers. I don’t buy into that. The assumptions he made were reasonable. But he ignored the forms which would have confirmed his assumptions. THAT is what gives. THAT makes it his fault. Not Insight, and not Best Buy. I’ll say it again. Insight can’t possibly be to blame (does anyone here (besides **DTT** ) think they are?). Best Buy doesn’t appear to have lied to him in any way to me. He didn’t see the ad before shopping and therefore it isn’t pertinent WHAT the ad said, and it doesn’t appear the employee told him the rebate was valid for Insight. Saying the employee _should_ have known doesn’t hold water in my book. Sure, if the employee knew, he should have told **DTT**. That is a big if, though. I don’t think that was ever explicitly said. Bottom line is that **DTT** ignored his opportunity to affirm his assumptions and now wants someone else to blame. ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/68 "2003-12-10T19:16:45Z")
**lezlers** - c’mere and gimme a hug! ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/69 "2003-12-10T20:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmosdes \* > \*\ ***DTT** - > > **lezlers** - > What gives is that he is ranting about Insight and Best Buy when, in fact, up until his last post he essentially denied any responsibility. The closest he came was saying “If I had read the rebate forms, I could have avoided this.” But you and others have said that reading the rebate forms is not important. Further, you and others claim reading the forms makes you anal. Therefore, it amounts to saying he has no responsibility since those forms are for suckers. I don’t buy into that. > > The assumptions he made were reasonable. But he ignored the forms which would have confirmed his assumptions. THAT is what gives. THAT makes it his fault. Not Insight, and not Best Buy.\*\* Way to twist my words around. DTT has accepted some responsibility from his title alone! He called _himself_ stupid. Obviously he’s implying that if he had been smarter, this wouldn’t have happened. Then he accepted blame. Even after he did that, you _still_ chose to ride his ass. Cut him a little slack, is all I’m asking. And no one said that reading the rebate forms is not important. We said that holding up the line reading all of the small print on the STACKS of forms they give you at the time of sale probably isn’t the best idea, and most people don’t do it. And yes, reading all of the small print on all of the forms _at the register_, IMHO, _is_ anal. And no one here said he had _no_ responsibility, or that forms are for suckers. Now you’re just making shit up. > [@](#): > > \*\*I’ll say it again. Insight can’t possibly be to blame (does anyone here (besides **DTT** ) think they are?). Best Buy doesn’t appear to have lied to him in any way to me. He didn’t see the ad before shopping and therefore it isn’t pertinent WHAT the ad said, and it doesn’t appear the employee told him the rebate was valid for Insight. Saying the employee _should_ have known doesn’t hold water in my book. Sure, if the employee knew, he should have told **DTT**. That is a big if, though. I don’t think that was ever explicitly said. Bottom line is that **DTT** ignored his opportunity to affirm his assumptions and now wants someone else to blame. \*\* No, I don’t think Insight is to blame. And no, Best Buy didn’t lie to him. The employee at BB isn’t expected to know every detail about every rebate the store offers. I do believe, however, that the expectation that a BB employee be aware of a popular rebate, advertised publically, that is _not available to over 90% of the customers that shop in that particular store_, is a reasonable one. I also believe the expectation that a BB employee make a customer aware of this fact who _asks about this rebate in particular_ is a reasonable one. If this happened where I live, where there are multiple ISP’s, I would totally be on your side. I’m taking _all_ of the factors in this situation into account here. DTT lives in an area with only _one_ ISP, for _miles_ around. He has stated that 90% of the customers in this store are from this area. Therefore 90% of the customers of this store have the same ISP. This ISP does not participate in this rebate. Legally, BB has no obligation to inform their customers of this, but ethically, I think they can shoulder some of the burden. Honestly, would it have been that difficult to put up a sign or something next to the display that says “Insight is not participating in this rebate”? Considering _90%_ of their customers use Insight, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request, nor do I think the expectation that at some point in the course of the transaction that the _BB employee walked DTT through_ that this fact be mentioned to him is an unreasonable one. After all, since _90%_ of their customers use Insight, the liklihood that DTT also uses Insight and would therefore be uneligable to obtain the refund is pretty damn high. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/70 "2003-12-10T22:15:24Z")
**cmosdes** , you’re dragging this on just a wee bit long, considering that BB gave me a refund on _Saturday_. I asked the clerk about the “free modem with service activation offer”, or something like that. I filled out some paper work, paid and the next day or so, Insight calls to schedule the appointment. So they obviously have some kind of relationship, ya think? I read the forms to find out what copies of which receipts went with what rebate form and mailed everything off after the service was turned on. I was not looking for exclusions. After this experience I will certainly ask the clerk about such exclusions, but why the heck should the clerk know? They just work there. And after I get an answer fromt he clerk I will read the forms. Also, after this experience, I will consult with a lawyer before posting in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/71 "2003-12-10T23:06:21Z")
**lezlers** - His title DENIES his responsibility, not affirms it. His follow on posts further show his denial of responsibility. He is claiming that being stupid means the store must, in different ways and multiple times, explain to him all pertinent details of his purchase and requirements for any and all rebates. I don’t mean to ignore the rest of your post, **lezlers**. I did read it, but this is starting to go in circles so I’ll tell you that if you want a fuller response, my e-mail is in my profile. **DTT** - _shrug_ - Like I said, blame whoever you want. You lost all credibility when you blamed Insight. At that point it was clear you will never accept your role in this and are searching for a need to blame someone other than yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/72 "2003-12-10T23:44:40Z")
You really think this is 100%, totally my fault, **cmosdes**? And, I think rather than > [@](#): > > a need to blame someone other than yourself , as you so eloquently put it, I am seeking to _share_ the blame. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/73 "2003-12-11T00:37:47Z")
**DTT** - No, I don’t think you own 100% of the blame. But from where I sit, you are looking to be very generous with the amount of blame you wish to share. We obviously differ on how much is yours and how much belongs elsewhere. But one thing is certain to me; you are determined to make this someone else’s fault at least in the majority. Based on that I tend to leave you without the benefit of the doubt. On the one hand, we have you scattering blame and trying to find a place to make it stick anywhere you can. On the other hand, there is BB who really doesn’t gain a whole lot by screwing people over a $60 (or even $80) modem. Or maybe it was just the sales guy who wanted to screw you because he would stand to gain… um, what does he gain by selling you a modem? Around here, BB employees don’t work on commission. Only you can really judge how much blame to share because only you know things the rest of us can never know. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/74 "2003-12-11T01:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Only you can really judge how much blame to share because only you know things the rest of us can never know. If that’s what you really think, then why don’t you just shut up? ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/75 "2003-12-11T03:53:04Z")
Wow! Bonus! Yet another example of your inability to grasp the totally obvious! You were right! You are an idiot AND stupid! (I’ll make sure to not hide that in a lot of other, you know, words, so you can find it. Maybe you’ll read something for once in your life.) ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/76 "2003-12-11T03:59:54Z")
Gah! I give up. Obviously you have some other beef with DTT, **cmosdes** , because you keep going back and forth with your posts. First, no one is to blame but DTT. Then, DTT doesn’t deserve _all_ of the blame. Thank you for the email offer, but I’m washing my hands of this. You’re the only one who insists on riding this out. Did you used to work at Best Buy or something? Nice to see **Guin** thinks enough about her own posts to defend them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/77 "2003-12-11T05:11:21Z")
Um, **lezlers** , I haven’t been online all day, thank you. Okay, perhaps the idiotic mouthbreather comment was uncalled for. And I AM sorry I assumed you were rude. HOWEVER, I still do not see it as Best Buy’s fault. Yeah, it’s a shitty deal, but they don’t make the rebate offers, the company does. And as for advertising-a lot of times it’s the higher ups in the district who make the decisions. So they have to do so. Basically, it was a shitty situation, but that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to the discount. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056/78 "2003-12-11T17:25:33Z")
**Guin** , thanks for coming back. \ **cmosdes** , what obvious bit of stuff did I miss now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-cause-im-stupid-doesnt-make-it-right/217056.md?page=3)