# Just curious how drowning a bunch of kids can be considered God's will **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860 "2025-07-15T01:00:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/301 "2025-08-28T17:55:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Everything happens according to God’s plan. First of all, that isn’t true. According to Biblical scripture in which, I’m assuming, all orthodox Jews and Christians believe, God’s “plan” was for human kind to reside in the Garden of Eden in a perfect state of happiness. That was thwarted when they violated the mandate not to eat the forbidden fruit. So much for “God’s plan for everyone”. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/302 "2025-08-28T18:01:58Z")
One of our minister’s favorite books: [![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5Vubwf908UPI5F5Y-ILKvzlpHZK5sppfgFCV2bdBm16-Cf1FcI5z71DgUuX5zEugdKeW_yhW0WKThjGrJ79iIGTG5f921CqfZ-rrs8fSVaJrPyvuXHn9pQ3qUYW8IWMxf08-H1g/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Book+Review+Template+SQ.png) ](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5Vubwf908UPI5F5Y-ILKvzlpHZK5sppfgFCV2bdBm16-Cf1FcI5z71DgUuX5zEugdKeW_yhW0WKThjGrJ79iIGTG5f921CqfZ-rrs8fSVaJrPyvuXHn9pQ3qUYW8IWMxf08-H1g/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Book+Review+Template+SQ.png) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/303 "2025-08-28T18:07:56Z")
Ah, I’ve got to read that! I’m not sure when, exactly, organized religions made the unfortunate mistake of thinking the explanation, “God’s will”, would actually comfort people as opposed to making them angry and bitter. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/304 "2025-08-28T18:47:59Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > God’s “plan” was for human kind to reside in the Garden of Eden in a perfect state of happiness. But isn’t God all-knowing? So didn’t He/She/It/They know Adam would eat the fruit? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/305 "2025-08-28T18:50:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So didn’t He/She/It/They know Adam would eat the fruit? Fool me once…. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/306 "2025-08-28T18:50:58Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But isn’t God all-knowing? So didn’t He/She/It/They know Adam would eat the fruit? “Knowing” and “Willing” are two entirely different things. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/307 "2025-08-28T18:56:34Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But isn’t God all-knowing? So didn’t He/She/It/They know Adam would eat the fruit? All knowing would be to know all things knowable. All knowing does not mean magic. The future is not knowable. I think it is safe to say that magic does not exist in our universe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/308 "2025-08-28T19:04:40Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > All knowing would be to know all things knowable. All knowing does not mean magic. Pretty sure it does. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/309 "2025-08-28T19:07:45Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > “Knowing” and “Willing” are two entirely different things. What does this mean? If God created man as he did, and placed him somewhere man would be tempted, couldn’t he have removed the temptation? Or made man differently? > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > All knowing would be to know all things knowable. All knowing does not mean magic. The future is not knowable. I don’t understand this either. God would certainly know the possibilities given the characteristics He created. And then you come up against omnipresence and omnipotence… > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I think it is safe to say that magic does not exist in our universe. But how is God different from magic? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/310 "2025-08-28T19:14:45Z")
That’s the paradox that birthed atheism: God is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving. But He can’t be all three, can He? Christianity’s apologists answer this with “He loves us by granting us free will.” This comes back to the drown Girl Scouts, and their limited opportunity to exercise free will. Again the apologists have you covered: “This life is just a brief test for eternal paradise.” Hopefully those girls’s prayers of gratitude to God wasn’t strangled in their throats by the floodwaters: utterances like that count in one’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/311 "2025-08-28T19:16:42Z")
And I am pretty sure that most Christian denominations/sects believe that the god they worship knows what will happen in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/312 "2025-08-28T19:18:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What does this mean? It means that I know humanity is in the process of turning this world into a complete clusterfuck, but it’s not my will that it happen. As for the other part, it all depends on your concept of “God”. In my view, there is a big difference between sentient creatures that make their own choices and the pre-programmed wind up toys you propose in their place. According to Quantum Theory, every possible choice that is possible actually exists until a choice is made, so the “all knowing” God in the way you picture him can’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/313 "2025-08-28T19:21:22Z")
They really can’t exist anyway, but once you introduce magic into the equation there really isn’t much that falls into that category of “impossible”. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/314 "2025-08-28T19:21:26Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Everything happens according to God’s plan. > > First of all, that isn’t true Well, that’s because there’s no god and therefore no plan. When I was in Catholic communicant’s class\*, the priest asked why did got smite Uzzah when he touched the Ark of the Covenant to keep if from falling to the ground. I offered “it was God’s will” as an answer, and the priest liked that answer a lot and went on about it for several minutes. That was apparently the answer he was looking for. That you don’t like this answer doesn’t make it an invalid one in the minds of at least some (very possibly most) believers. \*While at the same time becoming a confirmed Presbyterian. I went to Catholic Jr. High simultaneously and came out the other side of both classes an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/315 "2025-08-28T19:31:13Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > It means that I know humanity is in the process of turning this world into a complete clusterfuck, but it’s not my will that it happen. But it was his will to create things such that that was - if not likely, at least a strong possibility. > [@Jasmine](#): > > the “all knowing” God in the way you picture him can’t exist. I’m not picturing God in any particular way. I reject them all. I’m merely responding here to the God that is generally imagined by most if not all Christians. If someone wants to believe in a much limited “God of the gaps”, I’ve got much less difficulty than that. But that isn’t the sort of God folk seem to pray to and expect to intercede. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/316 "2025-08-28T19:32:20Z")
Well, this thread started with a specific question about a specific situation. As usual, and as other posters have pointed out, it has just become a forum for religion bashing. My original post was a specific response to that question. All I’ve seen since then is “how come” and “what if” and “why”. Add to that a few “why I hate religion” anecdotes, and there you have it. It’s pretty fruitless, really. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/317 "2025-08-28T19:35:12Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/318 "2025-08-28T19:35:41Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > As usual, and as other posters have pointed out, it has just become a forum for religion bashing. > > My original post was a specific response to that question. Apologies. I really have little interest in “bashing” religion. This thread WAS in the Pit, so I thought it an appropriate forum to express my firm understanding of the irrationality of belief in an intercessory God. I’m not sure what your original post was. I only jumped (back?) in a little bit upthread. Thought the story about my little heathen grandkid cute. She’s a pistol. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/319 "2025-08-28T19:37:24Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > It’s pretty fruitless, really. Well, it is the Pit. So maybe ranting is part of the point. Going back to the OP: > [@CC](#): > > So, how do these oh, so religious people explain such a catastrophe? It almost feels like a rhetorical question. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860/320 "2025-08-28T19:38:07Z")
Religion is nothing more than an operating system for our brains computer that needs occasional upgrades and debugging. Does this imply God does not really exist? No! It would have been pointless to try and describe a God that was incomprehensible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-curious-how-drowning-a-bunch-of-kids-can-be-considered-gods-will/1020860.md?page=17)