### Author:  [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/1 "2001-08-09T05:07:01Z")
I tend to carry a lot of pennies and nickels with me (in one of those small plastic change holders) since my wife accumulates them and I’m the one who does the laundry every weekend. So, I round out the change of any cash purchase to quarter increments and kill two birds w/one stone (not to mention looking for the recent “P” Rhode Island issue)
So I’m at a coffee shop:
_Cashier:_ That’ll be $2.30
_AG:_ Here you go _giving her three ones and five pennies
Cashier:_ I said Thirty!
_AG:_ Just punch it up _pointing at register
Cashier:_ No, it’s Thirty! _shaking head, opening register and proceeding to give me the wrong change
AG:_ No, the change is 75 cents. Give me three quarters
_Cashier: assessing…assessing…not really getting it, but doing what I told her to do_
Now I’m not asking for miracles, I’m not asking for quadratic equations, I’m not even asking that you do the mental math if you don’t want. If I give you $3.05, just punch it up and see what the handy little machine spits out. Do your job! Nothing is more painful than seeing someone try to think through a “problem” they’re clearly ill equipped to handle.
This happens to me several times a week and depresses the hell out of me each time. A rant? No, more like a dirge. \
---
### Author:  [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/2 "2001-08-09T05:15:55Z")
Why the hell can’t anyone count change back any more? If my eight-year-old can manage to count from 230 up to 305, why can’t an adult (or even teenaged) cashier, machine or no machine?
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### Author:  [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/3 "2001-08-09T05:19:20Z")
How odd. Generally the cashier will ask ME to round up so they don’t have to waste pennies. Of course, your cashier is likely making about 6 bucks an hour and doesn’t give a shit about thinking too much.
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### Author:  [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/4 "2001-08-09T05:29:40Z")
I must make a confession: I have been the idiot on the other end of the cash register.
It was close to 8 years ago and I was working the concession stand at the movie theatres. A huge crowd came through in the rush to get their snacks and head off to the latest film. Someone ordered a popcorn and drink and I punched it up and told him the price. He gave me extra change, hoping it would make things quicker in the transaction and he could get some useful quarters.
I’m normally very good at math and never needed the stupid cash register to tell me how much change I needed to give out. So I gave him back what I thought was the correct amount of change.
He told me, “No, this isn’t the right amount.”
I thought it through in my head, determined that it was, indeed, the right amount, and insisted I did it right. He again corrected me.
It never occurred to me to double check my figures on the cash register. It never occurred to me to give him the change he wanted (less than a buck’s worth), to avoid confrontation. Why should I? Clearly I was right.
I was wrong. I thought it through 20 minutes later and I felt like a complete idiot for arguing with him about something that trivial. Wherever you are middle-aged movie patron, I’m sorry! I’m not that big of a schmuck. Truly!
---
### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/5 "2001-08-09T06:38:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Road Rash \*
> **How odd. Generally the cashier will ask ME to round up so they don’t have to waste pennies.**
I’ll second that. I’d be delighted if people rounded up more often so that I didn’t have to run and get some more change from my supervisor.
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### Author:  [@Pnuk\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pnuk_Guy)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/6 "2001-08-09T11:25:10Z")
Dilbert Sketch: (paraphrased)
Cashier: That’ll be $2.79
Dilbert: I’ll give you $4.36 to make the change easier.
Cashier: er…
Dilbert: Sometimes I wonder how the world would survive without Engineers.
he he he.
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### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/7 "2001-08-09T15:21:20Z")
[hijack]What exactly is the difference between counting money and “counting back change”? A couple of years ago I had a parent complaining that I didn’t teach her daughter how to “count back change” in math class. I explained to her that I did teach the students to count money and calculate change mentally, and that her daughter had mastered both skills. We had “shopping” practice in which students used practice money to buy things, and had to determine if they recieved the correct amount of change by mentally figuring out how much change they should get ahead of time and comparing it to the change they actually recieved. I assured the woman that her daughter was not going to get shortchanged when buying something on her own. But apparently “counting change” and determining if you recieved the right amount of change are different things. Anyone care to enlighten me?[/hijack]
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### Author:  [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/8 "2001-08-09T15:34:27Z")
Counting back change is not math. Its object moving. Its easy, but not math.
With the 3.05 example: (I think funny so this may not be how other people count change. It is how my old lovely boss at the jewish bakery taught me.)
Start with 2.30. Move the nickle. 2.25 and 3.00. Count up, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3.00. Have a nice day!
If you focus more on things (coins/bills) rather than numbers (subtraction) it goes faster. No mental math, just shoving things around until they fit.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/9 "2001-08-09T15:42:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Number Six \*
> \*\*[hijack]What exactly is the difference between counting money and “counting back change”? A couple of years ago I had a parent complaining that I didn’t teach her daughter how to “count back change” in math class. I explained to her that I did teach the students to count money and calculate change mentally, and that her daughter had mastered both skills. We had “shopping” practice in which students used practice money to buy things, and had to determine if they recieved the correct amount of change by mentally figuring out how much change they should get ahead of time and comparing it to the change they actually recieved. I assured the woman that her daughter was not going to get shortchanged when buying something on her own. But apparently “counting change” and determining if you recieved the right amount of change are different things. Anyone care to enlighten me?[/hijack] \*\*
I would love to - “receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”. Ah, that feels better. (I don’t normally pick on spelling errors, but you apparently are a teacher, and you kinda asked for it.)
---
### Author:  [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/10 "2001-08-09T16:08:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ArchiveGuy \*
> \*\*_Cashier:_ That’ll be $2.30
> _AG:_ Here you go _giving her three ones and five pennies
> Cashier:_ I said Thirty!
> _AG:_ Just punch it up _pointing at register
> Cashier:_ No, it’s Thirty! _shaking head, opening register and proceeding to give me the wrong change
> AG:_ No, the change is 75 cents. Give me three quarters
> _Cashier: assessing…assessing…not really getting it, but doing what I told her to do_
>
> Now I’m not asking for miracles, I’m not asking for quadratic equations, I’m not even asking that you do the mental math if you don’t want. If I give you $3.05, just punch it up and see what the handy little machine spits out. Do your job! Nothing is more painful than seeing someone try to think through a “problem” they’re clearly ill equipped to handle.
> \*\*
I think you’re being unjust here. Typically you’ll pad out a bill with coins in order to make the change easier, specifically to avoid pennies or getting lots of change. For example, if the bill is $2.01, you might hand over $10.01 to avoid getting 7.99 in change. But the difference between .75 and .70 in change is pretty minimal.
I would guess that the cashier was noting that your contribution didn’t make things come out evenly and made an inference that you misheard her. It would cost you NOTHING to small and say, “I’d like to dump some pennies. Why don’t you give me three quarters in change.”
So, to summarize, you’re doing something mildly weird. The cashier is attempting to find some context in which your actions make sense, rather than acting like a complete robot. I think you’re the one at fault here. Explain what you’re doing and why you’re doing it and things will magically become much easier in your life.
---
### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/11 "2001-08-09T16:37:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by featherlou \*
> \*\*I would love to - “receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”. Ah, that feels better. (I don’t normally pick on spelling errors, but you apparently are a teacher, and you kinda asked for it.) \*\*
Thank you so much for your correction. Might I return the favor?
> [@](#):
>
> I would love to - “receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
> \*\*I would love to enlighten you–“receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
\*\*
You have a dangling preposition, and you used an en dash where you should have used an em dash. There should be no space before or after the dash.
---
### Author:  [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/12 "2001-08-09T17:06:40Z")
And your comma should be inside the quotes.
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### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/13 "2001-08-09T17:20:00Z")
Good catch, Munch, I missed that one. The final period should also be inside the quotes.
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### Author:  [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/14 "2001-08-09T17:33:51Z")
Only in America.
I personally have seceded from that annoying typographical stricture. It mangles construction for the convenience of typesetters.
---
### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/15 "2001-08-09T18:07:53Z")
Number Six:
> [@](#):
>
> What exactly is the difference between counting money and “counting back change”?
Medea’s Child’s version:
> [@](#):
>
> With the 3.05 example: (I think funny so this may not be how other people count change. It is how my old lovely boss at the jewish bakery taught me.)
> Start with 2.30. Move the nickle. 2.25 and 3.00. Count up, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3.00. Have a nice day!
Yeah, what M.C. said, but in case you didn’t get “Move the nickel” –
a) Subtract any “weird extra” amt tendered from the original price of the item and also from the amt tendered. So $2.30 becomes $2.25 and $3.05 becomes $3.00
b) Now you count back from adjusted price to adjusted amt tendered, smallest increments first: quarter makes it 2.50, another quarter makes it 2.75, yet another quarter makes it 3. If the customer had given $3 even instead of $3.05, you’d start at $2.30 and you’d count: dime makes it 2.40, dime makes it 2.50, quarter makes it 2.75, quarter makes it 3.
> [@](#):
>
> Cashier: That’ll be $2.79
> Dilbert: I’ll give you $4.36 to make the change easier.
Dilbert is being an asshole, but OK…9-6=3, 7-3=4, so adjusted price is $2.43 and adjusted amt tendered is $4, so penny penny that’s 45, nickel is 50, quarter is 75, quarter is 3, buck is 4, have a nice day asshole!
---
### Author:  [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/16 "2001-08-09T18:16:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Munch and Number Six \*
> \*\*And your comma should be inside the quotes.
>
> Good catch, Munch, I missed that one. The final period should also be inside the quotes.\*\*
“No, that only applies with reported speech,” Olentzero said. “Periods and commas belong outside the quotes otherwise.”
---
### Author:  [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/17 "2001-08-09T18:27:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Number Six \*
> \*\*Thank you so much for your correction. Might I return the favor?
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > I would love to - “receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
> > \*\*I would love to enlighten you–“receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
>
> \*\*
> You have a dangling preposition,\*\*
Actually, that “to” is the infinitive “to,” not a preposition.
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### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/18 "2001-08-09T18:48:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Olentzero \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Munch and Number Six \*
> > \*\*And your comma should be inside the quotes.
> >
> > Good catch, Munch, I missed that one. The final period should also be inside the quotes.\*\*
>
> “No, that only applies with reported speech,” Olentzero said. “Periods and commas belong outside the quotes otherwise.” \*\*
Olentzero, that should be the case, but, at least [in the USA](http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/quotation.htm#footnote), periods and commas always go inside of the closing quotes. If you want to start a campaign to change this, I’m with you. As I often tell my students during grammar lessons, “It may not make sense, but it _is_ the rule.”
---
### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/19 "2001-08-09T19:25:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Scarlett67 \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Number Six \*
> > \*\*Thank you so much for your correction. Might I return the favor?
> >
> > > [@](#):
> > >
> > > I would love to - “receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
> > > \*\*I would love to enlighten you–“receive” is spelled “receive”, not “recieve”.
> >
> > \*\*
> > You have a dangling preposition,\*\*
>
> Actually, that “to” is the infinitive “to,” not a preposition. \*\*
According to Merriam Webster online, “to” is a preposition that is “-- used as a function word to indicate that the following verb is an infinitive \.” In the quote above, “to” is not attached to a verb, and exactly which verb was intended to complete the infinitive is not immediately obvious. Thus, “to” is a preposition that is not properly attached to an object or a verb. It is a dangling preposition.
---
### Author:  [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2001, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559/20 "2001-08-09T19:29:41Z")
Medea’s child, Ahunter, thanks for actually responding to my question. I think I understand what this is now. As it is something the cashier does, not the consumer, I don’t think it is something my students need to learn.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-do-the-math-idiot/75559.md?page=2)