# Just finished Marvel 1602...AMAZING! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642 "2004-12-13T19:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/1 "2004-12-13T19:52:45Z")
Anyone else read this graphic novel mini-series? It was written by Neil Gaiman, author of Sandman and _American Gods_. I thought it was fantastic! A really cool concept and it was done really well. There are spoilers in the rest of my post, so stop now if you haven’t read it! . . . . . . . . . . . . I was really confused for a while who Rojhag was suppossed to be. I’m thinking “is it that Native American who was in the X-Men for a while? But why is he white?” Then it all became clear. Ol’ caps, indeed. And the four of the Fantastick? Brilliant! I must admit, though, that Dr. Strange’s severed head soaked in brandy talking to people was a little odd. I have a few questions, though, since i’m not 100% knowledgable on all things Marvel: Who in the Hell is Virginia Dare? Was she made up for this series, or is she an actual hero in regular continuity? And the story of Caps in the future having to go underground to fight a facist president for life and getting killed (well, in this series, almost killed) and so forth part of some other continuity? An alternate universe series or a What If or something? But all in all it was very enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/2 "2004-12-13T20:02:20Z")
Heh, I first thought Rojhag was supposed to be Thor… I assumed Virginia Dare was one of the New Mutants or something. I’m old school Marvel so I don’t have any idea who the new breed is. I’m glad the stars like Nick Fury and Dr. Strange who have no current titles got such prominent roles. Usually when a comics company puts all their big names together in an alternate world story like this, the result is a big senseless mess. This time it worked beautifully, and I’m guessin it’s because the factory-minded editors at Marvel bowed to Gaiman and kept their noses out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/3 "2004-12-13T20:10:33Z")
Nitpick: It’s Rojha **z** , with a Z, as a Bostonian might pronounce “Rogers”. You know, Cap’s civilian name? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/4 "2004-12-13T20:13:57Z")
SPOILERS! Virginia Dare was made up for the series, although the character seems to owe a lot to Snowbird from Alpha Flight – white hair, can change into several animals, suffers a wasting sickness when she leaves her native land (Canada for Snowbird, the New World for Virginia). As for Cap, while the character has certainly found hilself facing fascist elements of the U.S. government over the years, the situations he descrbes in the book were not (AFAIK) depicted in any other comic and they refer to things that have not happened yet, if ever they will, in the mainline Marvel Universe. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/5 "2004-12-13T20:17:06Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > SPOILERS! > > Virginia Dare was made up for the series, although the character seems to owe a lot to Snowbird from Alpha Flight – white hair, can change into several animals, suffers a wasting sickness when she leaves her native land (Canada for Snowbird, the New World for Virginia). As for Cap, while the character has certainly found hilself facing fascist elements of the U.S. government over the years, the situations he descrbes in the book were not (AFAIK) depicted in any other comic and they refer to things that have not happened yet, if ever they will, in the mainline Marvel Universe. > > –Cliffy It was very obviously something Gaiman made up. Look at the pictures of the “President-for-Life.” He bears a not coincidental resemblance to someone rather well known. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/6 "2004-12-13T20:42:22Z")
Yeah, there’s probably spoilers here, but that’s to be expected… [Virginia Dare](http://www.virginiadare.com/history.htm) was a real person (and an icecream company, apparently). Although given the real circumstances (and legends) of her life and death, Gaiman had some room to adjust her to fit in. ‘Rohjaz’ prevented the Roanoak colony’s destruction/disappearance, which, in turn, meant that Virginia didn’t get shot. Her powers are an obvious reference to the legend surrounding her death. Also, Cap’s futire bears a rather strong resemblance to the original Marvel 2099 line, I think. Fascist future, no Superheroes, but plenty of people worshipping them, etc. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/7 "2004-12-13T20:43:18Z")
The _character_ Virginia Dare was perhaps made up for this series. The name, however, is historical. Virginia Dare was the first child born to Europeans on the American continent, at the Roanoke colony. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/8 "2004-12-13T22:49:08Z")
First child born to English settlers, **jayjay**. You’re forgetting the Spanish in South America. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/9 "2004-12-13T22:58:19Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > First child born to English settlers, **jayjay**. You’re forgetting the Spanish in South America. What **Aesiron** said. I messed the original up. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/10 "2004-12-13T23:10:27Z")
Psst. Look at my post for more details on the real Virginia Dare, and where Gaiman no doubt got his ideas about how to use her. The 1602 character is obviously supposed to be the real one - just fit into a Marvel Universe framework. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/11 "2004-12-13T23:11:59Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Psst. Look at my post for more details on the real Virginia Dare, and where Gaiman no doubt got his ideas about how to use her. The 1602 character is obviously supposed to be the real one - just fit into a Marvel Universe framework. Well, we posted less than a minute apart, and I didn’t check above my own contribution, so I missed it. Sorry! :smack: again. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/12 "2004-12-13T23:31:52Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > First child born to English settlers, **jayjay**. You’re forgetting the Spanish in South America. You are forgetting the Spanish in St Augustine Florida. St. Augustine was founded in 1565 forty-two years before the English colony at Jamestown, Virginia, and fifty-five years before the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock . While I have no first hand knowledge of births between those dates, I kind of doubt there weren’t any. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/13 "2004-12-13T23:40:44Z")
Well, if you want to get really pedantic, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if there was a half-European baby popped out sometime in early 1493. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/14 "2004-12-13T23:43:21Z")
…or, now that I thought about it a second longer, sometime around 1000 in Newfoundland. Or even earlier in Greenland which is geographically North American. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/15 "2004-12-14T00:47:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, we posted less than a minute apart, and I didn’t check above my own contribution, so I missed it. Sorry! Eh. 'S ok. Was more pointing out my post. The snarky aspect of my second post was more humour than anything else. FTR, I assume the fact Virginia turns into animals and has stark white hair is a reference to the story that she was shot by a hunter when she was mistaken for a white doe. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-finished-marvel-1602-amazing/279642/16 "2004-12-14T01:06:21Z")
> [@jeevmon](#): > > It was very obviously something Gaiman made up. Look at the pictures of the “President-for-Life.” He bears a not coincidental resemblance to someone rather well known. Actually, if you believe Gaiman and the artist, it IS a coincidence. The Prez is supposed to be a Marvel universe character, the Purple Man, I believe.