# Just fucking obey the cops and the law. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848 "2014-11-28T20:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/221 "2014-11-30T23:36:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Red. Yes, or no? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/222 "2014-11-30T23:36:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, or no? Batman, when he’s prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/223 "2014-11-30T23:38:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “Shades of gray” is just part of a dirty book title to you, isn’t it? Either cops have the right to shoot first, or they don’t. There’s no shade of gray here. If they have the right _sometimes_, then the answer is “yes”, because otherwise the answer would be “no”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/224 "2014-11-30T23:39:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Batman, when he’s prepared. Yes, or no? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/225 "2014-11-30T23:40:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, or no? Do you like molesting children or have you stopped that now? Yes or No? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/226 "2014-11-30T23:41:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Either cops have the right to shoot first, or they don’t. There’s no shade of gray here. If they have the right _sometimes_, then the answer is “yes”, because otherwise the answer would be “no”. I’m starting to think now that all police officers must be mentally retarded and/or autistic. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/227 "2014-11-30T23:41:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, or no? Bolivia in the summer time, on Dia de la Patria. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/228 "2014-11-30T23:48:22Z")
Let the record show that **Czarcasm** is either unwilling or unable to state whether he believes police are ever justified in shooting first. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/229 "2014-11-30T23:52:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Let the record show that **Czarcasm** is either unwilling or unable to state whether he believes police are ever justified in shooting first. Let the records show that that was definitely not the fucking question you asked, Police Groupie. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/230 "2014-11-30T23:52:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let the records show that that was definitely not the fucking question you asked, Police Groupie. Are police ever justified in shooting first? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/231 "2014-11-30T23:52:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Either cops have the right to shoot first, or they don’t. There’s no shade of gray here. If they have the right _sometimes_, then the answer is “yes”, because otherwise the answer would be “no”. I would say, actually, that this more an attempted answer to the question, “do the police have ANY right to shoot first?”. But that’s not what you asked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/232 "2014-11-30T23:53:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are police ever justified in shooting first? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/233 "2014-11-30T23:55:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yes. That wasn’t so hard, was it? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/234 "2014-12-01T00:03:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That wasn’t so hard, was it? Dealing with your colossal idiocy is a challenge for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/235 "2014-12-01T00:05:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > **Do police have the right to shoot first; yes, or no?** > [@Smapti](#): > > Are police ever justified in shooting first? (emphasis added) For the sake of keeping the conversation moving forward, those are the two questions you asked. Do you see how adding “ever” completely changes the meaning of the question? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/236 "2014-12-01T00:10:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That wasn’t so hard, was it? Getting you to ask the right question and stop being an obstinate asshole? It seemed a right bitch, actually. If you want some good advice on how to avoid situations like what happened in Cleveland(advice beyond “Don’t be black” and “Cower when police go by”, that is), [this article that was originally published in the _PORAC Law Enforcement News_](http://www.experts.com/Articles/The-Art-of-Force-Pre-Contact-Threat-Assessment-By-Ron-Martinelli) will show you all the ways those police fucked up royally from beginning to end. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/237 "2014-12-01T01:11:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, or no? Can you think of a scenario where it would not be appropriate for a cop to shoot first? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/238 "2014-12-01T01:14:09Z")
He was twelve. And he was shot by the idiot police because he was waving around a fucking toy gun. Not a real gun but a toy gun. Because the police were too stupid to figure out how to deal with a twelve year old with a toy gun. That’s what some people are defending here: police who are dumber than twelve year olds. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/239 "2014-12-01T01:26:51Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > He was twelve. And he was shot by the idiot police because he was waving around a fucking toy gun. Not a real gun but a toy gun. Because the police were too stupid to figure out how to deal with a twelve year old with a toy gun. That’s what some people are defending here: police who are dumber than twelve year olds. He had an air soft gun which are renown for their resemblance to real firearms. So the Toy gun argument is a straw man. As far as the age goes is there a gun that won’t fire when a 12 year old pulls the trigger? So the age argument is also invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/240 "2014-12-01T01:58:02Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > He had an air soft gun which are renown for their resemblance to real firearms. So the Toy gun argument is a straw man. > As far as the age goes is there a gun that won’t fire when a 12 year old pulls the trigger? So the age argument is also invalid. Even if it were a real gun, the way these cops handled it was about as wrong as you can get. Seriously, if you’re a grown man and you can’t figure out how to retrieve a gun from a 12yo with out shooting him, than you shouldn’t be a cop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=13)