# Just fucking obey the cops and the law. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848 "2014-11-28T20:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/241 "2014-12-01T02:10:26Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Even if it were a real gun, the way these cops handled it was about as wrong as you can get. > Seriously, if you’re a grown man and you can’t figure out how to retrieve a gun from a 12yo with out shooting him, than you shouldn’t be a cop. The inability of some posters to understand such a simple thing explains why we shouldn’t be surprised if one day we become a true police state. Americans talk a good game about civil liberties and FREEDOM, but it’s plain to me that we’re way too willing to ignore these abstractions as long as it’s not “regular people” being affected. What these assholes forget is the definition of “regular people” is subject to change. One day it _will_ change, and by then, it may be too late to cry about civil liberties and FREEDOM. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/242 "2014-12-01T02:52:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are you Black? If not, just shut the fuck up about the problems they face at the hands of America’s trigger-happy police. Shut the fuck up, you racist idiot. Trying to shut out people based on skin color is exactly what the KKK does, you sick fuck, and we don’t need your idiotic bullshit here. Shut the fuck up. Not because of your skin color, which I don’t know and don’t care about, but because of the fact you spew racist shit whenever you fail to shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/243 "2014-12-01T03:03:37Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Even if it were a real gun, the way these cops handled it was about as wrong as you can get. > Seriously, if you’re a grown man and you can’t figure out how to retrieve a gun from a 12yo with out shooting him, than you shouldn’t be a cop. Exactly. He was twelve. Twelve year olds are idiots. I know because I deal with them around here all the time. My daughter is about to become one just like half her friends. Cops who aren’t smarter than twelve year olds are too stupid to be cops. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/244 "2014-12-01T03:09:44Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Even if it were a real gun, the way these cops handled it was about as wrong as you can get. > > Seriously, if you’re a grown man and you can’t figure out how to retrieve a gun from a 12yo with out shooting him, than you shouldn’t be a cop. Ok I’ll bite how do you\* disarm a person with a loaded\*\* handgun? Since you claim the police should have done this, you obviously know how \*yes you. You say it’s easy. Go ahead I’m standing a few feet away from you with a loaded handgun. Take it away from me before I fill you full of 9mm holes, 17 to be exact if the magazine is full. \*\*Airsoft guns look just like a real firearm, so if you want to live you must assume it is: A) a real firearm And B) it’s loaded To do anything else is stupid and quite likely will make you the guest of honor at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/245 "2014-12-01T03:12:48Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > [Emiliano Zapata - Wikiquote](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata) I was condensing the OP and those that agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/246 "2014-12-01T03:19:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Ok I’ll bite how do you\* disarm a person with a loaded\*\* handgun? Since you claim the police should have done this, you obviously know how > > \*yes you. You say it’s easy. Go ahead I’m standing a few feet away from you with a loaded handgun. Take it away from me before I fill you full of 9mm holes, 17 to be exact if the magazine is full. > > \*\*Airsoft guns look just like a real firearm, so if you want to live you must assume it is: > A) a real firearm > And > B) it’s loaded > To do anything else is stupid and quite likely will make you the guest of honor at a funeral. Here is what you _don’t_ do, [according to someone who knows what the fuck he’s talking about:](http://www.experts.com/Articles/The-Art-of-Force-Pre-Contact-Threat-Assessment-By-Ron-Martinelli) You don’t drive up to a 12 year old kid as fast as you can while yelling at him, jump out at him then shoot him down 2 seconds later. Now, you and others can keep describing these police training scenarios until the cows come home, but they have jack-all to do with what happened in this particular situation. Care to talk about what happened in this particular situation? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/247 "2014-12-01T03:41:46Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Ok I’ll bite how do you\* disarm a person with a loaded\*\* handgun? Since you claim the police should have done this, you obviously know how > > \*y\*\*es you. You say it’s easy. Go ahead I’m standing a few feet away from you with a loaded handgun. \*\*Take it away from me before I fill you full of 9mm holes, 17 to be exact if the magazine is full. > > \*\*Airsoft guns look just like a real firearm, so if you want to live you must assume it is: > A) a real firearm > And > B) it’s loaded > To do anything else is stupid and quite likely will make you the guest of honor at a funeral. Of course the simple answer is - stay more than a few feet away? Perhaps you hang back at around 200’? Possibly talk to the kid through a loud hailer? Was there any imperative that he be disarmed RIGHT NOW? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/248 "2014-12-01T04:01:18Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Ok I’ll bite how do you\* disarm a person with a loaded\*\* handgun? Since you claim the police should have done this, you obviously know how > > \*yes you. You say it’s easy. Go ahead I’m standing a few feet away from you with a loaded handgun. Take it away from me before I fill you full of 9mm holes, 17 to be exact if the magazine is full. > > \*\*Airsoft guns look just like a real firearm, so if you want to live you must assume it is: > A) a real firearm > And > B) it’s loaded > To do anything else is stupid and quite likely will make you the guest of honor at a funeral. First off, the only reason why the cops were just a few feet away is because of their stupid decision to bum rush the poor kid. Also, to disarm a potentially dangerous suspect is fairly simple, and you can witness how it’s done on about every other episode of Cops. From a safe distance loudly and firmly give these commands: Put your hands on top of your head. Turn around and face your back towards me. Now walk backwards to the sound of my voice. Ok stop! Get down on your knees. Cross your legs. The cops then proceeds to put the suspect in cuffs while the suspect still has his hands on his head, and is on his knees with his legs crossed. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/249 "2014-12-01T04:04:49Z")
And if you are 200’ away and he starts shooting? Now what? If you are far enough back that he can’t hit you, you probably can’t hit him. Meanwhile there may well be civilians that are closer and in danger. You remember the civilians you swore to protect and serve. Yeah those people. So now hero, what’s your next move? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/250 "2014-12-01T04:12:14Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > And if you are 200’ away and he starts shooting? > Now what? > If you are far enough back that he can’t hit you, you probably can’t hit him. Meanwhile there may well be civilians that are closer and in danger. You remember the civilians you swore to protect and serve. Yeah those people. > So now hero, what’s your next move? Uh yeah, I’m not going to get in this endless game where you keep moving the goal posts. The world is filled with “What ifs” , it doesn’t make sense to kill a person just because of the “what ifs”. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/251 "2014-12-01T04:13:56Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > And if you are 200’ away and he starts shooting? > Now what? > If you are far enough back that he can’t hit you, you probably can’t hit him. Meanwhile there may well be civilians that are closer and in danger. You remember the civilians you swore to protect and serve. Yeah those people. > So now hero, what’s your next move? Isn’t it better that you have the “maybe” of someone shooting, than the “certainly” of you shooting? And if there are others around - what the hell are you doing precipitating a situation where ANYBODY wants to pull out a gun and shoot? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/252 "2014-12-01T04:18:52Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > And if you are 200’ away and he starts shooting? > Now what? > If you are far enough back that he can’t hit you, you probably can’t hit him. Meanwhile there may well be civilians that are closer and in danger. You remember the civilians you swore to protect and serve. Yeah those people. > So now hero, what’s your next move? Essentially every person the police encounter may potentially reveal a weapon and start shooting. If your position is that they have to engage each person from the default position of “what if he starts shooting” then there’s little point in doing anything but shooting people immediately. The rush that the fucking psychopathic fascists on this board are in to justify every cop shooting we discuss here is disheartening. You all are sad, scared pathetic little people. “Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ a guy, Iook for me ma, I’ll be there, masturbating like a motherfuck.” - - The Ghost of Smapti Joad \* ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/253 "2014-12-01T04:31:00Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Uh yeah, I’m not going to get in this endless game where you keep moving the goal posts. > > The world is filled with “What ifs” , it doesn’t make sense to kill a person just because of the “what ifs”. Wait. I’m moving the goal posts? WTF? I was responded to: > [@Shakes](#): > > Even if it were a real gun, the way these cops handled it was about as wrong as you can get. > > Seriously, if you’re a grown man and you can’t figure out how to retrieve a gun from a 12yo with out shooting him, than you shouldn’t be a cop. I asked how to do that. Then bengangmo came in with parking 200 feet away. And I’m the one that moved the goal posts? Read for detail. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/254 "2014-12-01T04:38:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Essentially every person the police encounter may potentially reveal a weapon and start shooting. Essentially every person _ **I** _ encounter may reveal a weapon and start shooting. Lest you think my point is absurd (folks that are about to be arrested have more incentive to commit violence), recall that we’re discussing a 12 year old wandering around in a park. **Rick** seems to think that the kid is going to take hostages or maybe spray bullets in every direction after being told to disarm. Sure that could happen and does quite often within the dreams of the typical gunnut. But it’s fucking unlikely. **Moron Support Groups** Remember, NRA propaganda is chock full of anecdote and avoids data presentation at all costs. So it’s no wonder that the resident gunnuts have pisspoor risk evaluation capabilities. They are like highway drunk drivers who avoid airplanes at all costs because they saw a crash last month on the news. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/255 "2014-12-01T04:38:35Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Shut the fuck up, you racist idiot. Trying to shut out people based on skin color is exactly what the KKK does, you sick fuck, and we don’t need your idiotic bullshit here. > > Shut the fuck up. Not because of your skin color, which I don’t know and don’t care about, but because of the fact you spew racist shit whenever you fail to shut the fuck up. Question: do you believe that people who are not of African-American descent, especially the Caucasian majority, have a clear and accurate picture of not only what life is like for them, but (perhaps more importantly) THEIR PERCEPTION of what life is like for them, and why? (ETA: in a sense, this point strikes me as similar to some of the recent debate over feminism and rape culture. It’s kind of interesting to see the parallels.) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/256 "2014-12-01T09:52:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > A 9mm bullet travels around 1400 fps. It will travel over 1500 feet before it strikes the ground. That’s easily a few blocks. Sadly, for those going in the killing trade, bullets lose velocity the further they travel, so whether as an assassin or because she picked up a toy plastic bow and arrow causing you to fear for your life, pointing a pistol at a 4-yr-old girl 300 metres away will not guarantee you a hit. - An American block appears to be about 100 to 300 metres. 3x100 = 300 metres. Ranges for Specific Non-Sniper Weapons: M9 Pistol 9mm Purportedly US military rating 1800m range \*\*\*50m maximum effective range. * * * Gun Wiki — **[Factors of Effective Range](http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange)** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/257 "2014-12-01T16:15:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Question: do you believe that people who are not of African-American descent, especially the Caucasian majority, have a clear and accurate picture of not only what life is like for them, but (perhaps more importantly) THEIR PERCEPTION of what life is like for them, and why? I think much of the issue in this particular case is that when some of the African Americans of Ferguson tell me what their perception is of their lives, then the clear and accurate picture I get is what life is like when one is a complete idiot. The perception of racism can be wrong. Not always, but very often. Thus very often when someone says “they only did this to be because I’m black” it isn’t true. Very often they treated you that way because you didn’t pay your traffic tickets, or you sold drugs, or you were sitting in a park pretending to shoot people and reached for what the police had every reason to believe was a real gun when they told you to put your hands up. Or because you were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic, and then block the cop from getting out of his cruiser when he tried to question you about a convenience store robbery, punched him in the face, and tried to grab his gun. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/258 "2014-12-01T18:46:05Z")
In the video narrated by the Police Chief, funny how he goes strangely silent once the cops enter from stage right. What happened to all the freeze frames and circles we were treated with at the beginning and middle portions of the tape? We didn’t even get a voiceover explaining “…and this is when they told him to drop his weapon”. All we get is what we see. One minute the kid is sitting in the gazebo, the next minute he’s walking over to the car and is then killed. The police needs a new PR department. I’m also wondering if the cop car had a dashcam and if so, what was picked up on it. Will we hear the voices of two level-headed cops, assessing the scene in a rational manner and agreeing upon a plan of action that makes sense given the available data? Or will we hear two trigger-happy idiots acting as though this is their big chance to shoot them one, with their minds made up about the kid before they even arrive to the scene. That’s the tape I’d like to see. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/259 "2014-12-01T18:46:06Z")
At least **Shodan** allows for the rare occasion that racism does occur in the US. That’s mighty white of him. Of course, most of the time, black people claiming racism put themselves in a poor position with their failure to pay tickets, their drug sales and their firearms brandishing. It’s so good we actually have so little racism going on in America, and almost none right here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/260 "2014-12-01T18:48:21Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Ok I’ll bite how do you\* disarm a person with a loaded\*\* handgun? Since you claim the police should have done this, you obviously know how > > \*yes you. You say it’s easy. Go ahead I’m standing a few feet away from you with a loaded handgun. Take it away from me before I fill you full of 9mm holes, 17 to be exact if the magazine is full. > > […] > To do anything else is stupid and quite likely will make you the guest of honor at a funeral. You’re not a 12 yo. Of course, you can kill someone trying to disarm you. What people are saying is that an adult shouldn’t fear confronting an armed 12 yo. Even though theorically possible, a 12 yo is extremely unlikely to shot you, even if the gun is real. And the gun is very unlikely to be real in the first place. You don’t shot a 12 yo pointing a gun in your direction. You tell him to put down the weapon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=14)