# Just fucking obey the cops and the law. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848 "2014-11-28T20:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/401 "2014-12-02T17:45:00Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > When I was a kid doing something vaguely improper (say playing with something I shouldn’t) and an authority figure yelled at me, I may very well have tried to quickly get rid of the object. A completely unconscious reaction driven because I would be in trouble if I found with it > > Stupid of course, and wildly immature naturally, but then again I was a kid at the time. Yes, that’s my guess at what happened. That, or as someone else suggested, in his immature brain the most logical thing to do was pull the gun out to show the officers it was not a real firearm. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/402 "2014-12-02T17:54:30Z")
Too fuzzy to make out what’s happening for sure but [here’s the moment in question.](https://sumo.cdn.tv2.no/imageapi/v2/img/5476e79a84aee9d9d7f9b705?width=974) Is it known for sure that there is a dash cam video of the incident? I understand it hasn’t been released but do we know for sure that one exists? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/403 "2014-12-02T17:54:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Drug dealer? Cite that he was a drug dealer. I was talking about the guy who got his ass beat when he wouldn’t open his mouth and spit out his “for sale” stash when ordered to do so by the cops, not the little fellow with the Airsoft gun. That case is linked a little upstream from my first post on that. And honestly, I’d love to see all the drug dealers in America get a daily ass whooping. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/404 "2014-12-02T17:58:59Z")
Presuming you will exempt such fine upstanding institutions as Seagram’s and P. Lorrilard Tobacco? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/405 "2014-12-02T18:07:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Presuming you will exempt such fine upstanding institutions as Seagram’s and P. Lorrilard Tobacco? Yeah, I’m mostly against the street entrepreneurs who purvey poison and suffering upon the masses for profit. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/406 "2014-12-02T18:10:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I was talking about the guy who got his ass beat when he wouldn’t open his mouth and spit out his “for sale” stash when ordered to do so by the cops, not the little fellow with the Airsoft gun. Yeah, I haven’t read anywhere that he was convicted of dealing . . . ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/407 "2014-12-02T18:13:39Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Too fuzzy to make out what’s happening for sure but [here’s the moment in question.](https://sumo.cdn.tv2.no/imageapi/v2/img/5476e79a84aee9d9d7f9b705?width=974) Is it known for sure that there is a dash cam video of the incident? I understand it hasn’t been released but do we know for sure that one exists? [A quick google search shows that dashcams are a thing in Cleveland.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vIgFlsen_8) But we don’t know if the cops in this situation had one or whether it was on when the shooting occurred. If no footage exists, it would be nice if the PD would explain why that is to the public. Because its absence would go to the argument that we need cameras on cops at all times, especially since the idea is being floated that these were rookie cops. Wouldn’t the rookies be the ones most in need of a dashcam? If the footage does exist, it would be nice if the PD could release it so some fundamental questions could be answered. What possessed them to roll up to the gazebo with weapons drawn? What had been communicated to them by the dispatcher to cause them to think they were dealing with an imminent danger? Did they or did they not issue verbal commands to the kid prior to opening fire? How much time elapsed between these commands and them firing? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/408 "2014-12-02T18:17:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yeah, I haven’t read anywhere that he was convicted of dealing . . . From that link… _On August 14 undercover police in Denver targeted suspected drug dealer David Flores for arrest. Flores allegedly put a sock full of heroin in his mouth._ Originally linked here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17941883&postcount=325](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17941883&postcount=325) A sock full of heroin… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/409 "2014-12-02T18:27:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > From that link… > > _On August 14 undercover police in Denver targeted suspected drug dealer David Flores for arrest. Flores allegedly put a sock full of heroin in his mouth._ > > Originally linked here > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17941883&postcount=325](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17941883&postcount=325) > > A sock full of heroin… OK, _suspected_ drug dealer. He hadn’t been tried/convicted. That usually precedes execution. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/410 "2014-12-02T18:32:04Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > […] not the little fellow with the Airsoft gun. Don’t stray from the script. You mean ambiguously sized guy of indeterminate age, not little fellow. > [@](#): > > And honestly, I’d love to see all the drug dealers in America get a daily ass whooping. What’s that word for that thing where there’s no due process of law again? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/411 "2014-12-02T18:43:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > … What’s that word for that thing where there’s no due process of law again? You mean like the cops trying to seize the moron’s heroin? My word for that is “awesome, good job cops.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/412 "2014-12-02T19:13:35Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You mean like the cops trying to seize the moron’s heroin? My word for that is “awesome, good job cops.” I was referring to the previous thing you said, which I specifically quoted, about “daily ass whoopings,” not this other different thing that doesn’t make you look like as much of an asshole. You know, a real man stands by his words rather than pretending he said something else. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/413 "2014-12-02T19:36:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You keep alleging over and over that there is no risk that a twelve year old will shoot. I have already cited several examples of twelve year olds shooting. So the risk is not nil, no matter how often you assert that it is. > > As for your example, do you understand the difference between a co-worker reaching for scissors, and a person reaching for a gun after being warned three times to freeze by the police, who are investigating a case of someone threatening people with a gun in a public park? As usual, replace “person” by “12 yo” . The risk of a 12 yo old shooting you isn’t nil as proven by your link, and the risk of your coworker stabbing you with the scissors isn’t nil, as proven by my link. However, the risk in both case is almost nil, and neither case warrants the use of deadly force. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/414 "2014-12-02T19:45:54Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > As usual, replace “person” by “12 yo” . The risk of a 12 yo old shooting you isn’t nil as proven by your link, and the risk of your coworker stabbing you with the scissors isn’t nil, as proven by my link. So you see no difference between a co-worker reaching for scissors, and a 12 year old reaching for a gun upon being told by the police to freeze? I suspect you aren’t serious, or at least you shouldn’t be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/415 "2014-12-02T20:11:42Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I was referring to the previous thing you said, which I specifically quoted, about “daily ass whoopings,” not this other different thing that doesn’t make you look like as much of an asshole. > > You know, a real man stands by his words rather than pretending he said something else. It’s hard to keep up with you since I really don’t pay all that much attention to _roadkill_ like you on the information highway. But yes, I’m perfectly okay with dope dealers getting their asses whooped every day. In fact, I’d vote for it if it was ever on the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/416 "2014-12-02T20:15:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you see no difference between a co-worker reaching for scissors, and a 12 year old reaching for a gun upon being told by the police to freeze? I suspect you aren’t serious, or at least you shouldn’t be. > > Regards, > Shodan Just curious, do you keep the video of the 12 year old boy being shot in your porn folder? Regards, GoFuckYourself ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/417 "2014-12-02T20:18:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Tamir’s size and apparent age actually are red herrings. Now, now. You can’t expect the police to instantly distinguish between red herrings and actual herrings in mere seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/418 "2014-12-02T20:22:00Z")
Gracious me - do you lick the fetid ooze from your mother’s purulent syphilitic lesions with that mouth? And can you teach me how to do it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/419 "2014-12-02T20:23:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > It’s hard to keep up with you since I really don’t pay all that much attention to _roadkill_ like you on the information highway. But yes, I’m perfectly okay with dope dealers getting their asses whooped every day. In fact, I’d vote for it if it was ever on the ballot. You’re claiming now that you responded to me in an evasive manner the first time because you “don’t keep up with roadkill”? That doesn’t make any sense, since you did reply the first time, albeit like a big pussy. At least now you clearly affirm that you stand foursquare against due process of law. It is helpful to be clear exactly where you psychopathic fascists are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/420 "2014-12-02T20:28:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You’re claiming now that you responded to me in an evasive manner the first time because you “don’t keep up with roadkill”? That doesn’t make any sense, since you did reply the first time, albeit like a big pussy. > > At least now you clearly affirm that you stand foursquare against due process of law. It is helpful to be clear exactly where you psychopathic fascists are coming from. I’m not surprised that it doesn’t make sense to you. I’ll bet stairs are hard for you too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=22)