# Just fucking obey the cops and the law. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848 "2014-11-28T20:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/81 "2014-11-29T17:16:29Z")
Nuke him from orbit! Only way to be sure… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/82 "2014-11-29T17:53:11Z")
Obviously, the correct answer is: pull up within arm’s length of him and barrel roll out the door while shooting. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/83 "2014-11-29T18:02:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Tell me, the cops pull up to a report of a person wielding a gun, they see the individual reaching for what they believe to be that gun, what are they suppose to do? Perhaps ascertain that he wasn’t an innocent bystander with a gun trying to fend off the shooter? You know, all those citizens who say they’d jump in and take out a shooter in a movie theater or mall? Since the 911 call wasn’t fully communicated to the officers (the call said it was maybe a juvenile with a toy gun, but the officers weren’t told that. They thought it was an adult with a real gun), when they saw it was kid, maybe they could stop for a moment and consider he wasn’t the person they were looking for? Imagine if he hadn’t been- if he was a random kid with an air soft toy in his pocket, orange cap intact, and they shot him in error? Taking a beat and making sure you’re shooting the right person is worth it too, even if you don’t think it’s worth it to try to diffuse the actual situation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/84 "2014-11-29T19:00:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Tell me, the cops pull up to a report of a person wielding a gun, they see the individual reaching for what they believe to be that gun, what are they suppose to do? Tell me what you think of what I wrote, first. You didn’t react to anything in my post, it seems like. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/85 "2014-11-29T19:10:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Tell me, the cops pull up to a report of a person wielding a gun, they see the individual reaching for what they believe to be that gun, what are they suppose to do? I’d like to hear an answer to this question too, since there seems to be a lot of ducking around it and fighting the hypothetical instead of straight answers. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/86 "2014-11-29T19:12:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > the cop was going to kill Rice no matter what he did I seem to recall hearing this exact same narrative a few months ago, about a racist cop who executed an innocent black teenager in the street who hadn’t done anything wrong, simply because he woke up on the wrong side of the bed and felt like killing him a Negro today. Then the facts came out. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/87 "2014-11-29T19:18:57Z")
What kind of training or advice do you think this kid’s parents gave him? If none, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/88 "2014-11-29T19:26:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Surely cops overreacting to a 12 year old with a pellet gun is the same thing as a a cop shooting a 6’4" 290 lb suspect who just robbed a convenience store and by most accounts attacked a police officer? Apparently, he didn’t rob the convenience store. [He paid for those cigars](http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/), and replaced several when he didn’t have the money for more. [Neither the store owner nor the clerk called the police](http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/store-owners-talk-about-surveillance-released/), which you’d expect if the store had been robbed. Instead, it was a customer who called it in. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/89 "2014-11-29T19:39:19Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I think it’s two fold: Obey the cops, but cops also need to go through some sensitivity training. They was some (a lot really) cops talk to minorities, teenagers and women is deplorable. The homeless and the mentally ill too. Cops can be very abusive and disdainful towards anyone they know society doesn’t value. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/90 "2014-11-29T19:49:50Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Apparently, he didn’t rob the convenience store. [He paid for those cigars](http://aattp.org/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-to-show-brown-paying-for-cigarillos-video/), and replaced several when he didn’t have the money for more. [Neither the store owner nor the clerk called the police](http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/store-owners-talk-about-surveillance-released/), which you’d expect if the store had been robbed. Instead, it was a customer who called it in. So you’re saying that when Dorian Johnson, Brown’s friend who was with him at the time of the shooting, [testified to the grand jury that Brown stole the cigarillos (relevant section begins page 32)](https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/248126858?access_key=key-dDeAfDkI2g5F2eR7YS66&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll) he was lying? I’m going to need you to explain why Brown’s best friend felt a need to posthumously slander his best friend in the middle of trying to defend his reputation and character. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/91 "2014-11-29T20:04:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying that when Dorian Johnson, Brown’s friend who was with him at the time of the shooting, [testified to the grand jury that Brown stole the cigarillos (relevant section begins page 32)](https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/248126858?access_key=key-dDeAfDkI2g5F2eR7YS66&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll) he was lying? > > I’m going to need you to explain why Brown’s best friend felt a need to posthumously slander his best friend in the middle of trying to defend his reputation and character. Fuck if I know, and I refuse to speculate. People who have seen the entire recording say that it appears to them that Brown paid, despite the minor altercation. How about YOU provide a reason why the store owner says that neither he nor any of his employees called 911 to report a robbery? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/92 "2014-11-29T20:17:05Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > How about YOU provide a reason why the store owner says that neither he nor any of his employees called 911 to report a robbery? It’s not uncommon to not call the cops over petty theft. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/93 "2014-11-29T20:19:51Z")
Somewhere, Joseph Houseman is smiling. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/94 "2014-11-29T20:23:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d like to hear an answer to this question too, since there seems to be a lot of ducking around it and fighting the hypothetical instead of straight answers. The answer to that question requires one to analyze the _whole_ scenario, not just the bits and pieces of time and action that support your conclusion. There is a lot of blank space between “pulling up a report” and “gun supposedly being pulled out of waistband” that you and he just don’t seem to want to go over, for some reason. If you, and he, want to discuss the answer to that question, you have to be willing to discuss what happened in that time period between the report and the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/95 "2014-11-29T20:35:43Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Fuck if I know, and I refuse to speculate. People who have seen the entire recording say that it appears to them that Brown paid, despite the minor altercation. > > How about YOU provide a reason why the store owner says that neither he nor any of his employees called 911 to report a robbery? With many threads about this and many, many desperate and stupid posts trying to come to MB’s defense, yours are perhaps the most desperate and most stupid. Well done. And that you can’t seem to fathom a very sensible answer to the question you ask here indicates that you are intent on staying king of that hill. Keep up the good work! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/96 "2014-11-29T20:39:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Because a 12-year-old is capable of making that kind of split-second decision the right way. Hell, I’m not sure I’D be able to do more than act confused in that time frame in the same situation, and I’m 43. Of course, I’m white, so my confusion wouldn’t probably be fatal. _whew!_ Because other 12-year olds in the United States are capable of having real guns loaded with real bullets that are capable of leaving other people dead, 12-year olds that are playing with toys should be capable of making the decision not to use them in a threatening manner around armed police officers. Otherwise their parents are whatever adults are responsible for them should make sure those 12-year olds are supervised at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/97 "2014-11-29T20:43:08Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > How about YOU provide a reason why the store owner says that neither he nor any of his employees called 911 to report a robbery? Maybe because they expect [stuff like this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuwNs_uIMAALRLy.png:large) to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/98 "2014-11-29T20:45:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The answer to that question requires one to analyze the _whole_ scenario, not just the bits and pieces of time and action that support your conclusion. There is a lot of blank space between “pulling up a report” and “gun supposedly being pulled out of waistband” that you and he just don’t seem to want to go over, for some reason. If you, and he, want to discuss the answer to that question, you have to be willing to discuss what happened in that time period between the report and the shooting. What I want to discuss is when you believe a cop is allowed to defend himself. How many shots is the armed suspect allowed to get off before the cops are allowed to shoot back? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/99 "2014-11-29T20:54:21Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Fuck if I know, and I refuse to speculate. People who have seen the entire recording say that it appears to them that Brown paid, despite the minor altercation. > > How about YOU provide a reason why the store owner says that neither he nor any of his employees called 911 to report a robbery? Would you call after a 6’4" 290 pound delinquent bullied you, or would you be afraid of repercussions? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848/100 "2014-11-29T21:04:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Tell me what you think of what I wrote, first. You didn’t react to anything in my post, it seems like. I think it missed the point honestly, because your underlying assumption appears to be that cops need to be shot at, wounded and bleeding before they can pull their weapons. That’s as far from the reality as is the point that many here are expressing, along the lines that they (the cops) drove up and opened fire for shits and giggles. Now, please tell me the circumstances under which you believe police are allowed to defend themself with lethal force? Must they wait for the other party to shoot first? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-fucking-obey-the-cops-and-the-law/705848.md?page=6)