# Just heard Mitt Romney speak in Indy--what an idiot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985 "2007-09-21T14:13:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/1 "2007-09-21T14:13:21Z")
As a Columbia Club member, I was able to attend Mitt’s breakfast fund raiser this morning. I shook the man’s hand all of forty minutes ago. (No, I did not provide funds, though I did sign a petition for him to get on the ballot in Indiana. I hope he gets the nomination. 😉 ) First, let’s give credit where it’s due. Mitt looks good, he looks presidential. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, and he is a very good speaker–not phony at all, just smooth, natural, and ingratiating. All that said, what a fool. He sounds even stupider and blinkereder to a sympathetic audience than he does in Soundbyteville. He says that America is at an inflection point. Life will never be the same again, etc. Why? Radical jihad, increased foreign competition, and I forget the third reason. The radical jihad thing is just retarded, the foreign competition thing is reasonable enough, and I forget the other thing. What are really stupid are his “ideas” for change. I will give him credit for doing something about health insurance in Mass. I’ll give him credit perhaps for getting other things done there. But all he has to offer, despite his belief in big changes coming for our nation, are pretty standard Republican talking points (although, again, he sounded credible in talking about health insurance). Lower taxes, strengthening families, stronger military, blah blah. Zero vision, in other words. He also made a crack about Hillary saying we need to be more in-this-together by saying, “I guess it’s out with Joseph Smith, in with Karl Marx.” Haw haw. Also an Edwards haircut joke. Tosser! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/2 "2007-09-21T14:39:15Z")
Hmm. So you can’t disagree with someone honestly. They have to transform in your mind into an idiot. Sadly, I think this says lots more about you than it does about Mitt. I’m torn on the guy myself. But on the face of it, he is one of the smartest of the candidates running (probably Romney, Clinton, Giuliani and Obama are the smartest among the frontrunners, if you ask me.) Now, smart doesn’t count for everything, but it counts for something, and for you to dismiss him as an idiot seems not only unfair, but agenda driven. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/3 "2007-09-21T14:43:08Z")
Why do you want him to get the nomination if he’s an idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/4 "2007-09-21T14:43:20Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Hmm. So you can’t disagree with someone honestly. They have to transform in your mind into an idiot. [/QUOTE] I’m at work and didn’t really have time to craft a compelling OP, so I take your point. I wanted to post this while it was fresh. It’s all contextual. I don’t think the man is unintelligent per se, but his assessment of our national situation is flawed, and his policy prescriptions (excepting health insurance) are absolutely vacuous. And they are so because his political situation compels him to say things completely in disharmony with reality, and he does come across as extremely right wing (double Guantanamo, etc.) and Bush-following despite the disaster of that regime. Complete mismatch of reality and policy. Sounds therefore nutty, idiotic. Something bad. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/5 "2007-09-21T14:47:41Z")
He didn’t get much done in Massachusetts other than position himself for his presidential run, no matter how much he likes to claim otherwise. Look to the legislature (overwhelmingly Democratic) for health care reform, not him, for example. When he ran for governor he was cordial to gay rights and swore he’d never interfere in a woman’s choice despite his private beliefs. Now he’s running to the right-wing base and desperately trying to distance himself from the far more moderate positions he used to get elected. He’s a good-looking, well-spoken, Central Casting candidate. He’s also a [pander bear.](http://illinoisreason.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/mitt-romney-friend-to-pander-bears-everywhere/) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/6 "2007-09-21T15:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=SP2263] Why do you want him to get the nomination if he’s an idiot? [/QUOTE] Pubs will not vote for a Mormon, and he’s too right wing anyway and will lose. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/7 "2007-09-21T15:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] It’s all contextual. I don’t think the man is unintelligent per se, but his assessment of our national situation is flawed, [/QUOTE] So say you think it is flawed. [QUOTE=Aeschines] …and his policy prescriptions (excepting health insurance) are absolutely vacuous. And they are so because his political situation compels him to say things completely in disharmony with reality, and he does come across as extremely right wing (double Guantanamo, etc.) and Bush-following despite the disaster of that regime. [/QUOTE] Criticisms of policy, of his political alignment, of his rhetoric. All perfectly fine and worthy of comment - and all having little to do with his intelligence. > [@](#): > > Complete mismatch of reality and policy. Sounds therefore nutty, idiotic. Something bad. This is where you lose me. Sorry. If you disagree with the guy, you have a million different substantial reasons to do so. But I couldn’t rescue a foundering and scandal-ridden Olympics. I couldn’t manage a successful venture capital firm. I couldn’t come in to a debt-ridden and divided management company and put it on its path to future growth and success. Could you? And I wouldn’t dream of saying success in one field means you’ll be successful in another - but it should at least insulate you from charges of idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/8 "2007-09-21T15:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] When he ran for governor he was cordial to gay rights and swore he’d never interfere in a woman’s choice despite his private beliefs. [/QUOTE] He meant [‘again’](http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0706/S00066.htm), I’m sure. > [@](#): > > Suzan Mazur: Bits of this story have appeared elsewhere, but would you recount the story of Bishop Mitt Romney’s counseling of this pregnant woman? > > Judy Dushku: It was in the late 1970s. She was a woman about 40 years old, 3 ½ to 4 months into her sixth pregnancy. We’ll call her woman “X”. She was an active member of the ward where Romney was bishop in Massachusetts, at that time in a neighboring community where I was not a member. The stake president was a doctor named Gordon and was an old friend of X. > > X and her husband went to the hospital because she had an aching in her leg. Her doctor was alarmed after examining her, telling her she had developed blood clots and could not carry the pregnancy to full term. He said they’d have to give her blood thinners in order to get rid of the clots and that they would endanger the baby. > > X had lost her first baby; the child was born with many physical problems and died at two or three weeks old. X was already the mother of four teenage children. This would have been her sixth. > > Suzan Mazur: And X and her husband decided they would abort the child because her life was in danger. > > Judy Dushku: Yes. > > Suzan Mazur: And she advised her bishop – Mitt Romney – that she was going to terminate the pregnancy for medical reasons. And what did he say? > > Judy Dushku: First of all the stake president – Gordon – came by to see X with a friend and said well it looks like you have to do this – terminate the pregnancy. He was perfectly comfortable with X’s decision, since both she and the child were in peril. And Gordon was technically higher in the LDS church hierarchy than Mitt was as bishop. > > So then Mitt came in to the hospital. X thought Mitt had come to be comforting because that’s what bishops do. They have a pastoral role. But she said that instead he was critical. > > He said – What do you think you’re doing? > > She said – Well, we have to abort the baby because I have these blood clots. > > And he said something to the effect of – Well, why do you get off easy when other women have their babies? > > And she said – What are you talking about? This is a life threatening situation. > > And he said – Well what about the life of the baby? > > And she said – I have four other children and I think it would be really irresponsible to continue the pregnancy. > > X said she found herself arguing with Romney about her medical crisis, said he was very unsympathetic, very critical, and said that under the circumstances in no way did he condone her aborting the child. And he left. > > She was extremely distraught. Talked it over with her husband. They decided to go ahead with the abortion. After that she left the church. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/9 "2007-09-21T16:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So you can’t disagree with someone honestly. They have to transform in your mind into an idiot. Brilliant, Moto, truly brilliant. This is probably the funniest joke ever told on this board. I mean, you weren’t serious, were you? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/10 "2007-09-21T16:18:11Z")
It is not entirely unreasonable to speak and act differently when you are speaking as a member of a church hierarchy than you would as an elected secular government official. I don’t happen to agree with his religious dogma, but I don’t find it hypocritical that he might have a more stringent code of required conduct as churchman than he expects to as a governor, legislator, or president. I also happen to disagree with his dogma as a Republican Party Stalwart, but while I find it to have many failings, hypocrisy is not demonstrated by this anecdote. I hate bad arguments against bad ideas. It makes the ideas sound better than they are. Tris ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/11 "2007-09-21T16:23:40Z")
No debate and clear expressions of acrimony. I’ll let the Pit folks decide whether I should have really moved this to **IMHO**. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/12 "2007-09-21T16:28:53Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] I will give him credit for doing something about health insurance in Mass… [/QUOTE] The funny thing is that when Hillary Clinton recently came out with her health plan, it sounded remarkably like the Massachusetts plan – and Romney immediately attacked her for it! “She fundamentally doesn’t believe in free markets, wants to impose a European-style bureaucracy, etc.” Talk about knee-jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/13 "2007-09-21T16:49:20Z")
And haven’t we done this old “idiot” vs. intelligence thing before? “Idiot” is a pretty generic pejorative. It can refer to IQ, EQ, social skills, common sense, street smarts, etc. I don’t believe that Romney, or for that matter G.W. Bush, has a low IQ. But in either case what comes out of the mouth mismatches Reality so completely that I blame the brain behind the words and call the entire organism “idiot.” ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/14 "2007-09-21T16:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] The funny thing is that when Hillary Clinton recently came out with her health plan, it sounded remarkably like the Massachusetts plan – and Romney immediately attacked her for it! “She fundamentally doesn’t believe in free markets, wants to impose a European-style bureaucracy, etc.” Talk about knee-jerk. [/QUOTE] Yes, he said the same thing today. To say the least, he disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/15 "2007-09-21T17:17:33Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] He says that America is at an inflection point. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, but I can’t seem to get past this. WTF does that even mean? Mitt Romney reminds me of Ken–of Ken and Barbie fame. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/16 "2007-09-21T17:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I’m sorry, but I can’t seem to get past this. WTF does that even mean? [/QUOTE] It sounds like something you get a tetanus shot for. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/17 "2007-09-21T18:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] WTF does that even mean? [/QUOTE] According to the ever reliable Wikipedia > [@](#): > > an inflection point is also called an ogee So now you know. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/18 "2007-09-21T18:34:07Z")
I found it amusing that this topic was listed immediately under “I can has break from moron-speak?” I think I’d pay money to see a presidential debate conducted in cat-macro language. It’s not like it would be any less substantive… ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/19 "2007-09-21T18:43:14Z")
[An inflection point,](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/InflectionPoint.html) mathematically, is where the curvature changes sign. Another way of saying that is: before the inflection point, the line curved one way; after the inflection point, the line curves the other way. A handy analogy, I should think, if you believe society is poised to curve along a different path than it has up to this point. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985/20 "2007-09-21T19:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] According to the ever reliable Wikipedia an inflection point is also called an ogee [/QUOTE] In NYC people with ogees used to harass drivers at stop lights until Giuliani was elected. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-heard-mitt-romney-speak-in-indy-what-an-idiot/419985.md?page=2)