# Just how badly is downtown San Francisco doing?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 30, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775 "2023-05-30T15:40:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/81 "2023-07-26T23:59:55Z")
NVIDIA is sitting pretty. In the AI gold rush, they’re selling the shovels. (They’re also digging a little gold on the side)
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/82 "2023-08-15T00:35:07Z")
Just heard about [this on the radio](https://deadline.com/2023/08/san-francisco-federal-workers-advised-to-work-remotely-1235497986/) - some federal workers in SF advised to work from home due to concerns about crime. Not a good look when the freaking federal building is considered unsafe…
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### Author:  [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/83 "2023-08-15T16:19:01Z")
Here is [more info on that Federal Building thing](https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/drugs-crime-nancy-pelosi-federal-building-18292237.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result).
_Dozens of dealers routinely plant themselves on, next to or across the street from the property, operating in shifts as users smoke, snort or shoot up their recent purchases. The property’s concrete benches are an especially popular site for users to get high, socialize or pass out._
This was a story on the news and the video showed people using in broad daylight in front of the building.
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### Author:  [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/84 "2023-08-15T16:24:15Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#):
>
> Specifically the Walgreens we went to looked quite normal.
We were in SF in September 2022. Due to a major last-minute screw-up, I canceled our original hotel and then decided on the Signature Hotel in San Francisco. We checked in and used their Wi-Fi to make a reservation at the Clift Royal Sonesta hotel and immediately checked out.
It was only a 20 minute walk between the two hotels, but there’s a world of difference.
That said, even the Walgreens which is kitty-corner from Clift Royal Sonesta hotel had Metamucil and Tylenol locked up. Not just those products, but those were what we needed to buy. Probably 1/10 of the products were locked up.
The last time we were in SF was in the late 90s and we stayed at the Hilton Union Square, one of the hotels mentioned above. At the time it was a very busy and relatively fancy hotel. Now the are seems run-down and less desirable.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/85 "2023-08-15T20:14:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Sounds like a great time to convert some office buildings to housing.
It is, to be honest, but you’ll always struggle to get politicians to vote against their own interests and the interests of their rich supporters, and these people are disproportionately likely to own rental properties.
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### Author:  [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/86 "2023-08-15T21:30:33Z")
President of Gump’s of San Francisco, published a very direct open letter to Gov. Newsom, Mayor Breed and the SF board of supervisors.
[ ](https://californiaglobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Screenshot-2023-08-14-at-7.16.31-AM.png)
> **[San Francisco's 165-Year Old GUMP'S CEO Scorns Politicians for Crime,...](https://californiaglobe.com/articles/san-franciscos-165-year-old-gumps-ceo-scorns-politicians-for-crime-homeless-drug-addicts/)**
>
> Gump's is a luxury American home furnishings and home décor retailer, founded in 1861 in San Francisco, California. Except today, Gump's is under siege.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/87 "2023-08-16T02:42:26Z")
Well, at least he made it to 165. Good for him!
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/88 "2023-08-16T03:45:28Z")
This retailer is about to have their grand opening in the downtown SF market:
> **[IKEA San Francisco's grand opening announced, and it's soon](https://abc7news.com/ikea-san-francisco-new-location-downtown/13624101/)**
>
> The store is on Market and 5th Streets near the Powell Street BART station.
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/89 "2023-08-16T04:13:49Z")
I pass by that location quite often. It’s a busy area: Right across the street from the Warfield Theater, one of my favorite concert venues. Hope it does ok.
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### Author:  [@YellowDog51](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YellowDog51)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/90 "2023-08-17T18:47:51Z")
Can anyone comment on the area around the Hotel Drisco in Pacific Heights?
We plan to spend a night there as a last stop on the way out of a California trip in a few weeks. At this point, I’m planning on dropping off our rental car before we check in and then taking a car service to the airport the next morning (as I recall, the Drisco has on-the-street parking, which I won’t be using).
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### Author:  [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/91 "2023-08-17T20:02:56Z")
> [@YellowDog51](#):
>
> Can anyone comment on the area around the Hotel Drisco in Pacific Heights?
Some of the Bay Area dopers will probably be more knowledgeable, but IIRC Pacific Heights is one of the ritziest neighborhoods in San Francisco. You should be fine.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/92 "2023-08-17T20:06:02Z")
> [@YellowDog51](#):
>
> Can anyone comment on the area around the Hotel Drisco in Pacific Heights?
The very immediate area is mostly residential and richer than Croesus.
ETA: A block from it, [this quaint place is for sale](https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2839-Pacific-Ave_San-Francisco_CA_94115_M22324-15174).
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### Author:  [@YellowDog51](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YellowDog51)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/93 "2023-08-18T16:03:27Z")
Thanks WildaBeast and Tammerlane.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/94 "2023-08-21T18:42:16Z")
> [@fedman1](#):
>
> not to mention that when misdemeanor level was raised to, I believe, $950, cops can’t be bothered since DA will not waste their time to prosecute
One thing about that tidbit is that it applies to petty theft, not shoplifting, that is what is supposed to be the end of the retailers in SF, not quite.
> **[Proposition 47 did not end prosecution of thefts under $950 in California](https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299)**
>
> CLAIM: Under Proposition 47 in California thefts under $950 will not be prosecuted. AP ASSESSMENT: False.
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### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/95 "2023-08-21T20:21:03Z")
Here in D.C. there is an effort to have the city buy up and convert some of the office buildings to housing. But it’s a double hit to the city. They lose current (or previous) tax revenue and it’s a net financial drag on the city.
Cities need commererce and business to thrive. They can’t survive as just havens for the homeless, as sad as that comment may be.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/96 "2023-08-28T17:55:02Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> They just announced the closing of Old Navy, and a huge Nordstroms also.
[https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/business/nordstrom-san-francisco-closure/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/business/nordstrom-san-francisco-closure/index.html)
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [September 21, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/97 "2023-09-21T23:35:02Z")
Some good news: Dreamforce seems to have been a huge success:
[https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/dreamforce-2023-sf-hotel-conference-performance-18380901.php](https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/dreamforce-2023-sf-hotel-conference-performance-18380901.php)
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/98 "2023-09-24T13:57:17Z")
I don’t have a cite, but I’ve read that converting office space to housing is extremely expensive, mostly because the wiring is not set up for individual units and metering and the plumbing is set up for communal bathrooms, not kitchen and bath in every unit.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/99 "2023-09-24T14:25:28Z")
All of those are obviously changes that need to be made for such a conversion. A bigger problem is that apartments need windows, so the newer office towers with large floor plates are harder to convert.
Edited to add, I previously provided [this gift link](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/03/11/upshot/office-conversions.html?unlocked_article_code=BWKd48d9k01xbcwD0CRBW-Qbj7RYGtkpFqudSLQyqjM3tEpBqF0bSUu0_RqZ4c9pHTVZTALneaRUv_iPG-ytdcenPcXap0ZpeJxf4VGnmpF3rDDE3g0efugPwb4dTjA1Qu201DhJyHsH7F7VlIKmKoxGIjjGLCgrpBRySoLp_0v4JQY-lEsBsyQi1GD8u2lLJXSyL0eLmCLGi2tWoFP_RGLd3MoESD3Pz20IAsRgLd-MF2tW2eHdz39h0hoAegcsrLWkZWO6FcsQj-wpaEsR7FqOfIgRWEEtd1LR6CqQenkDYZMhg1PeQ6hssyayMt3LCfwT7GYMLRBqdE7HrowbTxeueVc1aXD0yA&smid=url-share) to a New York Times article that nicely illustrates how such conversions can happen.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-badly-is-downtown-san-francisco-doing/984775/100 "2023-09-24T20:47:47Z")
None of this sounds different from any other major city. When I was in Manhattan a year ago the tour guide told me there was a 35% commercial vacancy rate.
I work in downtown Orlando and it is completely unrecognizable because there are so few office workers around (and bear in mind that this is a state whose governor is running for POTUS based almost entirely on his laissez faire approach to Covid).
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