# Just how dependent is Israel upon the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128 "2011-01-10T19:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/81 "2011-01-12T20:59:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think the distinction he’s trying to make is that in the case of Israel, we write them a check for about 3 billion in aid. In the case of S. Korea, we don’t.We just have a hell of a lot of troops there, and the cost of keeping all those troops there is about 3 billion. S. Korea still gets the benefit of the troops being there, but they don’t get the money directly. Oh, I grok that. But his original claim was about military aid, which we are providing to SK at the same cost as to Israel. The specific terms and breakdown of aid doesn’t change the fact that it’s aid. That’s why his original dodge was to try to change the issue to financial, rather than military, aid. The story he was selling (“ZOMG, the military aid we give to Israel is more than we give to any nation in all types of aid, combined, other than Iraq”) is incompatible with the facts, so a distinction without a difference is propped up so the original story can still be sold. I doubt that anybody really believes that if the US stopped giving raw cash and instead stationed tens of thousands of troops on the Lebanese border and vowed to defend Israel from attack, or generally garrisoned troops in Israel to defend it, that RNATB would be satisfied and claim that we were no longer giving Israel any military aid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/82 "2011-01-12T21:11:28Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Unable to accept how thoroughly wrong you are, you’re now actually claiming that three billion in military aid is totaly unlike three billion in aid plus actual physical troops for military aid. **Of course** it’s different. Money alone does not buy force-projection capacity. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/83 "2011-01-12T21:30:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > it’s different Really? Gasp! The issue isn’t whether or not they’re identical, but whether or not we provide military aid to both nations. The USFK was established to defend South Korea. It is a _special_ kind of argument that claims that establishing a military force, tens of thousands strong, and paying for it yourself, in order to aid in another country’s defense… does not constitute militarily aid to that country. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/84 "2011-01-12T21:42:40Z")
Usually when people talk about military aid, though, they’re talking about financial aid given to be earmarked for military purchases, loan guarantees, and weapons sales. The direct stationing of troops in a country usually isn’t classified as military aid. I agree with you, though, that the people who are unhappy that we’re giving military aid to Israel wouldn’t be any happier if we stationed troops there for their defense. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/85 "2011-01-12T22:00:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Usually when people talk about military aid, though, they’re talking about financial aid given to be earmarked for military purchases, loan guarantees, and weapons sales. Well, if they do talk about it that way, they’re incorrect and really mean to be talking about [Foreign Military Financing](http://www.state.gov/t/pm/65531.htm) (at least wrt America). If we’re looking at MA rather than FMF, it’d be correct to state that it would be defined something like: [ > [@](#): > > foreign aid, the international transfer of capital, goods, or services from a country or international organization for the benefit of the recipient country or its population. Aid can be economic, military, or emergency humanitarian ]([Foreign aid | Definition, Examples, History, Purpose, & Facts | Britannica Money](http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/213344/foreign-aid)) We are definitely providing a military service in order to aid South Korea. And yah, if we switched tomorrow to providing an exactly equal deployment of troops and materiel to Israel, rather than cash, I would be surprised (to put it mildly) if people were supporting ‘the end of our military aid to Israel’. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/86 "2011-01-12T22:56:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Usually when people talk about military aid, though, they’re talking about financial aid given to be earmarked for military purchases, loan guarantees, and weapons sales. The direct stationing of troops in a country usually isn’t classified as military aid. > > I agree with you, though, that the people who are unhappy that we’re giving military aid to Israel wouldn’t be any happier if we stationed troops there for their defense. I disagree. Some people who have problems with the foreign military aid to Israel would be significantly less bothered by a US base in Israel. Just curious, how do you think the Israelis would feel about tens of thousands of US soldiers at a military base in Israel? Would they feel the same way about it as they feel about getting 3 billion dollars in “store credit” ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/87 "2011-01-12T23:16:22Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The Guardian can generally be counted on to be highly critical of Israel. Put a little differently (I’m not really disagreeing, just addressing an implication you may or may not have meant to make about the Guardian in particular), the European media, at least the left-leaning part of it, has a decades-long crush on the Palestinians and isn’t going to play nice with Israel till . . . I forget exactly what the goal is, but I’m sure it involves the Israelis apologizing to the Pals and the Euro Left, which will happen . . . never. Oh, and bashing Israel can also be a fun way for left-leaning Euros to bash the U.S. But yes, the articles were pretty factual this time around. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/88 "2011-01-13T00:09:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Now please shut up. You do not dictate who will contribute to a thread and you will definitely stop trying to do so in a rude manner. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/89 "2011-01-13T14:54:55Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Put a little differently (I’m not really disagreeing, just addressing an implication you may or may not have meant to make about the Guardian in particular), the European media, at least the left-leaning part of it, has a decades-long crush on the Palestinians and isn’t going to play nice with Israel till . . . I forget exactly what the goal is, but I’m sure it involves the Israelis apologizing to the Pals and the Euro Left, which will happen . . . never. Oh, and bashing Israel can also be a fun way for left-leaning Euros to bash the U.S. But yes, the articles were pretty factual this time around. Agreed on all points. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/90 "2011-01-13T14:56:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think some people think that because we give Israel a lot of money, they therefore owe us unwavering fealty. We have our own reasons for giving them that money and its not all humanitarian. Israel is an ally not a colony. I agree with that as well. If we are all going to go around making reasonable points and agreeing with each other, the convertsation won’t take off! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/91 "2011-01-14T08:08:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The problem here is that the US also uses Israel as a conduit for sales that are in the US’s alleged best interest, and so at its behest; Iran-Contra being an example … in the murky world of international arms sales, often nothing is as it seems on the surface. It is hard to keep track of who is deceiving whom. That was fun, Iran wanted the Ihawk surface to air missile and the US shipped them over to Israel, who promptly traded the older model of the sam, along with parts for the F4 phantom. Iran not happy lol Declan ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128/92 "2011-01-14T14:48:08Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > That was fun, Iran wanted the Ihawk surface to air missile and the US shipped them over to Israel, who promptly traded the older model of the sam, along with parts for the F4 phantom. > > Iran not happy lol > > Declan How disappointing. Really, if you can’t trust your deadly enemies in a secret and illegal arms deal, who _can_ you trust? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-dependent-is-israel-upon-the-us/567128.md?page=4)