# Just how far can porno films go **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 12, 2000, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625 "2000-03-12T07:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/1 "2000-03-12T07:54:00Z")
Assuming consenting adults. There are films of penetration. Where the electrician plugs more than circuits. On another realm, there are electricians who get kidnapped, tied up and hazed by a couple of dominatrix’s. But I see none together. OK, I do remember John Holmes whacking Marilyn Chambers with his schlong. What are the rules of mixing B&D and penetration(i.e. shagging, fucking) in porno flicks. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/2 "2000-03-12T08:06:00Z")
While Cooldude is at it…I’d like to extend his question with: Is there absolute proof that an actual snuff film ever existed? I have a problem with this because I do not believe that anyone would be so stupid as to actually commit murder and preserve it on film for every law enforcement person in the world to see. Yep! I’ve got an argument with someone. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/3 "2000-03-12T09:13:00Z")
There has been[no evidence](http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/listing.cgi?selection=snuff) of snuff films being produced. * * * **Gypsy** : Tom, I don’t get you. **Tom Servo** : Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/4 "2000-03-12T11:58:00Z")
There was a video released in Britain a few years ago which consisted of footage of executions. You could argue that that was a snuff movie, although the victims weren’t killed for the purposes of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/5 "2000-03-12T12:22:00Z")
There is a convention among American porno film makers not to mix actual sex and simulated S&M or B&D in the same videos. There’s no law against it, but apparently they don’t want to give anti-porn advocates ammunition by making videos that explicitly mix sex and violence. I have heard that European porno videos (which are sold in the US) do show explicit sex with S&M and B&D, but I’ve never seen any such videos so I can’t confirm this. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/6 "2000-03-12T15:24:00Z")
And another thing… Sodomy is pretty much 90% of what goes on in these movies\*. Since that’s still a felony in many states and the actors are being filmed in the act of committing it, why aren’t these acts viewed as crimes and the perpetrators sought after & prosecuted? The production studio has to keep records of the actors real names, addresses, etc. for legal reasons (proof of age, mailing out paychecks, reporting income, etc.), these should be “open-n-shut” cases. Not that there’s anything _wrong_ with that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/7 "2000-03-12T15:28:00Z")
'…Is there absolute proof that an actual snuff film ever existed?" If you word it that way, no, but call it the nightly news, yes. Or Mondo Cane on video lets you see plenty of that stuff…or visit a college anatomy class with the people in the tank, if you’d like to see some real stuff. ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/8 "2000-03-12T19:08:00Z")
No one would be stupid enough to videotape a murder? You vasty over-estimate the intelligence of the average psycho. IIRC, Charles Ng and Lenard Lake had mounds of video depicting the rape, torture and eventual murder of their victims. It is not a great streth of my imagination to picture one of these deviants posting an mpeg on usenet. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/9 "2000-03-12T21:02:00Z")
“You could argue that that was a snuff movie, although the victims weren’t killed for the purposes of the film.” and “If you word it that way, no, but call it the nightly news, yes” Nope. By definition, a snuff film is “one in which the film **is the purpose of (rather than incidental to) the murder** and with some intent of commercial distribution.” So neither Tom nor handy’s examples are snuff films. Evil: > [@](#): > > No one would be stupid enough to videotape a murder? You vasty over-estimate the intelligence of the average psycho. From alt.folklore.urban FAQ: > [@](#): > > Note to the new reader: please don’t send or post e-mail saying “snuff movies could exist, because people are naughty enough” - this is not in dispute; **the point is that no examples have yet come to light.** Until someone shows evidence of their existence, snuff films are in the same category as UFO’s, the Loch Ness monster, and Bruce Willis’ hair – i.e. “believed false”. * * * **Gypsy** : Tom, I don’t get you. **Tom Servo** : Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/10 "2000-03-12T22:24:00Z")
I don’t know the case law, but I do know a producer of bondage films (don’t ask), and he claims that it is illegal due to obscenity laws to show penetration or other forms of direct sexuality in a S&M film or any other film depicting bondage or the infliction of pain. * * * He’s the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armor, shouting ‘All Gods are Bastards!’ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/11 "2000-03-12T23:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Sodomy is pretty much 90% of what goes on in these movies\*. Since that’s still a felony in many states and the actors are being filmed in the act of committing it, why aren’t these acts viewed as crimes and the perpetrators sought after & prosecuted? The production studio has to keep records of the actors real names, addresses, etc. for legal reasons (proof of age, mailing out paychecks, reporting income, etc.), these should be “open-n-shut” cases. No offense, Opus, but this topic has been raised repeatedly on this board. Granted, you’ve written a variation on the more common theme of “why don’t porno film makers get arrested for prostitution?” The reason in both cases in jurisdiction. The acts that are being filmed would certainly be illegal in many areas because of laws against prostitution or sodomy. The film makers therefore don’t film their videos in these areas. Virtually all professional adult film making occurs in the Los Angeles area where the local law enforcement has decided to tolerate it. And a police officer or district attorny in Georgia (for example) cannot prosecute for a crime that occurred in California. So legal problems with the production of porno videos are almost unheard of; most legal problems occur with the distribution, sale, or ownership of videos, which occur in other jurisdictions that are less tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![Louie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Louie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Louie)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/12 "2000-03-12T23:30:00Z")
_Just how far can porno films go?_ 13 inches ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/13 "2000-03-13T00:30:00Z")
Nemo said: > [@](#): > > No offense, Opus… I’m not sure why you expect me to be offended by anything you said. You just answered my question. > [@](#): > > …this topic has been raised repeatedly on this board… I am sure many questions are asked & answered repeatedly on these boards. I spend maybe an hour here per day, if I’m lucky. That’s just not enough time to have opened & read through each and every topic ever posted, so I will be the first to admint that I may have missed a few. My post count should validate that; I think I’m pretty near the top of the list of longest registered _regular_ posters with the lowest post count. (polishes medals) ---
**Author:** ![Nickrz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@Nickrz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nickrz)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/14 "2000-03-13T09:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > registered _regular_ posters with the lowest post count. Posters who don’t poop very often do tend to be more prolific. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/15 "2000-03-13T15:16:00Z")
[qoute]Little Nemo: And a police officer or district attorny in Georgia (for example) cannot prosecute for a crime that occurred in California [/quote] Don’t underestimate the DAs in Georgia. 6 or 7 years ago a Georgia DA got American XXXstacy (a subscription porn channel you could get on the old big satellite dishes) shut down because some kid was taping it and trading them with friends at school. * * * _I for one welcome our new insect overlords…_ - K. Brockman ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/16 "2000-03-13T16:16:00Z")
You could ask Brian. He has been to porno shoots, he knows all about them. But I don’t know why he hasn’t answered this one. 1975? 3snuff adjective (1975) : characterized by the sensationalistic depiction of violence; esp : featuring a real rather than a staged murder \ ©1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved. ---
**Author:** ![warinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@warinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/warinner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/17 "2000-03-13T16:32:00Z")
EvilGhandi wrote: > [@](#): > > IIRC, Charles Ng and Lenard Lake had mounds of video depicting the rape, torture and eventual murder of their victims. Mounds of videotapes to be sure, but no videotape of a murder was introduced as evidence at Ng’s trial. See: [A Pinch of Snuff](http://www.snopes.com/movies/other/snuff.htm) Andrew Warinner ---
**Author:** ![LaMaxwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@LaMaxwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LaMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/18 "2000-03-13T16:41:00Z")
Hi. I’m new here, so let me know if I commit any kind of faux pas. Back to the original question. I would be interested to know what law or laws prohibit B&D or S&M activities to appear in the same pornographic film. If you rent or buy a spanking video, for example, that’s all you’re going to get. No sex. The exceptions that I have run across is a couple of gay porn videos (male). One was set in a prison and included all kinds of bondage and (simulated) rape. My best guess is this one of the negative impacts of the women’s movement coupled with anti-porn crusades of the religious right-wing. One of the frequent arguments against porn is that it “degrades women” and encourages rapists, therefore any porn depicting women in a sexually submissive role might incite some rapist to copy what he sees. You know, like he wouldn’t have thought rape up on his own. Sigh. How nice that so many folks out there want to keep me from being degraded. What, only men have the right to submit? LaMaxwell * * * Every day our children ask us, “Who am I?” and with everything we say to them and everything we do, we say, “This is who you are.” ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/19 "2000-03-13T16:48:00Z")
Re: The OP: > [@](#): > > What are the rules of mixing B&D and penetration(i.e. shagging, fucking) in porno flicks. This really depends on where it was shot. If you’re talking about South America and parts of Europe, you’re much more likely to find flicks with this type of content as they have more of an “anything goes” attitude. As for the U.S., there was a recent series of films called (IIRC) “Rough Sex” that distribution was halted- not for legal reasons- because the “actors/actresses” and many reviewers found too distasteful and upsetting. I’ve never seen em but supposedly there wasn’t much bondage, but actual hitting and choking while shtupping. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625/20 "2000-03-13T17:08:00Z")
Alphagene, By which definition? The OED defines “snuff” as “pornographic photographs or films involving the actual killing of a woman”. Why it should necessarily be a woman, I’m not sure. My point was that while there may be no evidence of “snuff movies” in the sense that we generally understand them, you can buy videos of people being killed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-far-can-porno-films-go/8625.md?page=2)