# Just how harmful is pornography anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705 "2014-02-06T23:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/61 "2014-02-12T07:02:57Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Drawings or CGI or whatever is better since an actual woman isn’t being debased or taken advantage of, but the societal objectification remains. It makes men see women as only interesting or useful as they are beautiful, or linking sexiness and competency. See also the much maligned “pornification” of Western culture. Just noting that while some women might be forced to do porn, plenty of others do it as a pretty good career choice, in terms of money. They are no more debased and taken advantage of then the people who make your iPhone in China - and better paid. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/62 "2014-02-12T09:26:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Girls watch porn too, you know. But no one cares about that, any more than they care about the men in porn. The entire political narrative is one of the allegedly predatory male porn-watchers and the poor allegedly victimized women who star in it. Women who watch porn, women who like starring in porn, and men who star in porn don’t fit into the narrative and are so ignored. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/63 "2014-02-17T08:03:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Just noting that while some women might be forced to do porn, plenty of others do it as a pretty good career choice, in terms of money. They are no more debased and taken advantage of then the people who make your iPhone in China - and better paid. True, I don’t think they have to put suicide nets around porn shoots. There are plenty of women who make amateur porn for free (peace and blessings be upon them). But I don’t see how that isn’t debasing all the same. Like old reality TV shows where people eat bugs or chug fish eggs. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But no one cares about that, any more than they care about the men in porn. The entire political narrative is one of the allegedly predatory male porn-watchers and the poor allegedly victimized women who star in it. Women who watch porn, women who like starring in porn, and men who star in porn don’t fit into the narrative and are so ignored. One topic I haven’t seen much feminist commentary on is the (admittingly niche) femdom genre. Perhaps it’s not different since it’s still pandering to male tastes, but it seems different in character compared to most porn. The closest I’ve seen is the hypothesis (unrelated, as a criticism of feminist men) that men struggle to see women as actual equals. That is to say, we either want to be the big boss, or we want to elevate women onto a pedestal and worship them as more beautiful, morally superior beings, and so on. There is feminist commentary on women who watch porn, usually similar to criticism of sex-positive feminism in general. Namely that it’s unfortunate women have been swept up in or internalized the values of the the patriarchy. The suggested remedy is similar to that for male porn viewers: they should stop. Especially if they’re falling into male pleasing behavior (e.g. watching porn because the bf does). The role of men in porn is different, since they’re the heroes the audience is supposed to identify with and root for. The insistence that porn stars have giant penises is objectifying for men though. Porn is made by and for men, so there’s an element of wish fulfillment there. But I always thought it was odd because it can make normal guys feel inadequate by comparison. I think one of the draws that keeps it popular is guys like seeing the woman punished/humiliated/used by it. Seems to me a lot of the criticisms of the big business porn industry are becoming less relevant with the era of amateur stuff. So whether porn stars are drug addled child abuse victims being taken advantage of vs. happy nymphomaniacs who just love being ran on a train doesn’t matter as much anymore. I’d say it was less about the stars themselves and more of the effects porn had on the society. Whether the actors are happy or not is just a little extra guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/64 "2014-02-17T08:39:11Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > There are plenty of women who make amateur porn for free (peace and blessings be upon them). But I don’t see how that isn’t debasing all the same. It’s only debasing if it affects them, _personally_ that way. To an exhibitionist it may well just be an extra thrill. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldeyes26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e36b37/32.png) [@emeraldeyes26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldeyes26)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/65 "2014-02-17T09:19:16Z")
the worlds’ gone mad[.](http://www.insanityworkoutschedule.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/66 "2014-02-17T13:04:42Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > There are plenty of women who make amateur porn for free (peace and blessings be upon them). But I don’t see how that isn’t debasing all the same. Like old reality TV shows where people eat bugs or chug fish eggs. > > One topic I haven’t seen much feminist commentary on is the (admittingly niche) femdom genre. Perhaps it’s not different since it’s still pandering to male tastes, but it seems different in character compared to most porn. The closest I’ve seen is the hypothesis (unrelated, as a criticism of feminist men) that men struggle to see women as actual equals. That is to say, we either want to be the big boss, or we want to elevate women onto a pedestal and worship them as more beautiful, morally superior beings, and so on. > > There is feminist commentary on women who watch porn, usually similar to criticism of sex-positive feminism in general. Namely that it’s unfortunate women have been swept up in or internalized the values of the the patriarchy. The suggested remedy is similar to that for male porn viewers: they should stop. Especially if they’re falling into male pleasing behavior (e.g. watching porn because the bf does). > > The role of men in porn is different, since they’re the heroes the audience is supposed to identify with and root for. The insistence that porn stars have giant penises is objectifying for men though. Porn is made by and for men, so there’s an element of wish fulfillment there. But I always thought it was odd because it can make normal guys feel inadequate by comparison. I think one of the draws that keeps it popular is guys like seeing the woman punished/humiliated/used by it. Well there are lots of ways to interpret this stuff. As I’ve said on here before, many of the underlying motives that some like to read into straight porn are difficult to square with the similarities to porn aimed at other audiences / other media. For example with the large penises thing; they are disproportionately common in gay porn and erotic literature aimed at women too. And, indeed, at least implied in much softcore. In my own case the male talent having a large penis helps me suspend disbelief that the woman isn’t faking. Maybe she likes 'em big and is genuinely excited by just the sight and feel of his junk? Whereas at _best_ a small penis would be considered adequate or not a big issue. So straight away it’s more difficult for the female talent to convince me she’s really horny when the guy is small and/or limp. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/67 "2014-02-17T19:11:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The role of men in porn is different, since they’re the heroes the audience is supposed to identify with and root for. The insistence that porn stars have giant penises is objectifying for men though. Porn is made by and for men, so there’s an element of wish fulfillment there. But I always thought it was odd because it can make normal guys feel inadequate by comparison. Couldn’t you say the same thing about, say, the Olympics? I’m never going to be as hung as most porn stars. I’m also never going to be as fit as most track stars. Do you think there’s a significant concern that watching the Olympics will make the audience feel inadequate? > [@](#): > > I think one of the draws that keeps it popular is guys like seeing the woman punished/humiliated/used by it. Pardon me for being a bit TMI, but speaking as a man who enjoys the occasional large cock himself, that’s a load of fucking bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/68 "2014-02-17T20:52:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Couldn’t you say the same thing about, say, the Olympics? I’m never going to be as hung as most porn stars. I’m also never going to be as fit as most track stars. Do you think there’s a significant concern that watching the Olympics will make the audience feel inadequate? I think that’s a poor comparison, simply because most people don’t try track and field, even if they do watch the Olympics. Most people\* try sex. So if they watch porn and see men easily and consistently pleasing their partners, it may make them feel inadequate. Just like the people who do try Track and Field may feel inadequate when the winners score a 12-second-mile that’s complete acting and not actually how Track and Field is performed. \*I make that assumption that most people try sex. Cite if you think I’m wrong. > [@Miller](#): > > Pardon me for being a bit TMI, but speaking as a man who enjoys the occasional large cock himself, that’s a load of fucking bullshit. That’s “TMI”? I’m going to get a sexual harassment suit for saying “Hello” to someone, aren’t I? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/69 "2014-02-17T21:53:13Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > I think that’s a poor comparison, simply because most people don’t try track and field, even if they do watch the Olympics. Most people\* try sex. So if they watch porn and see men easily and consistently pleasing their partners, it may make them feel inadequate. Just like the people who do try Track and Field may feel inadequate when the winners score a 12-second-mile that’s complete acting and not actually how Track and Field is performed. While most people don’t compete in track and field, we all walk around, and lift things, and occasionally try to run for something. I don’t need to run the 440 to be keenly aware of the difference between me and an Olympic athlete, I just need to climb a flight of stairs. Anyway, regardless of the size (or presence) of dicks in porn, we’re not likely to ever see a porn genre for unsatisfying sexual encounters where neither person gets off. Like a huge amount of the popular media we consume every day, porn is a fantasy populated by people who are way prettier than people are in real life. There is a legitimate argument to make that watching TV shows about rich lawyers makes people feel bad about their dead-end jobs, and reading fashion magazines filled with super models makes people feel bad about their sagging boobs, and by extension, watching guys with massive tools in porn might make people feel bad about their own miniscule wangs. But if that’s a real problem at all, it’s not a problem with porn, but with our entire model of escapist entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/70 "2014-02-17T22:36:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > While most people don’t compete in track and field, we all walk around, and lift things, and occasionally try to run for something. I don’t need to run the 440 to be keenly aware of the difference between me and an Olympic athlete, I just need to climb a flight of stairs. > > Anyway, regardless of the size (or presence) of dicks in porn, we’re not likely to ever see a porn genre for unsatisfying sexual encounters where neither person gets off. Like a huge amount of the popular media we consume every day, porn is a fantasy populated by people who are way prettier than people are in real life. There is a legitimate argument to make that watching TV shows about rich lawyers makes people feel bad about their dead-end jobs, and reading fashion magazines filled with super models makes people feel bad about their sagging boobs, and by extension, watching guys with massive tools in porn might make people feel bad about their own miniscule wangs. But if that’s a real problem at all, it’s not a problem with porn, but with our entire model of escapist entertainment. I don’t disagree, but the issue is there. And I think the large difference hinges on the acceptability/stigma of subject matter. If you watch a guy jump his car through a building, emerge with car and self unscathed, quip a one-liner and then shoot a guy from 350 yard in the head with a Desert Eagle 50ca, you can talk to Jimmy at the water cooler about how it was all preposterous. You get a reality check. You start talking to Jimmy at the water cooler about the porn you saw last night and about the penis on _that_ guy and you lose your job as a start, with losing your wife, your kids, and getting put on an SO registry based on how traditional the area you live in is. Thus, if you are young and inexperienced and watching porn, I can see a feeling of inadequacy grab you and shake you violently in a sort of head game. This would be exacerbated by the inaccessibility that many minors feel in discussing this sort of thing with both their parents and friends. Early to the end of high school teens can talk about general topics with friends, but they don’t admit they watch porn in many, many cases. My experiences, though, are largely US-based. Countries with less of the Puritan influence would be a bit less reserved in sexuality as a whole, and can be a little bit more open with their close friends about sexuality in culturally varying amounts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/71 "2014-02-18T00:20:14Z")
[One woman’s experience, FWIW:](http://www.salon.com/2014/02/18/tales_of_a_female_sex_addict/) “My compulsion began when I was 12 and took me to dark places. I wasn’t just hooked on porn – I was hooked on shame.” ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/72 "2014-02-18T00:28:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [One woman’s experience, FWIW:](http://www.salon.com/2014/02/18/tales_of_a_female_sex_addict/) “My compulsion began when I was 12 and took me to dark places. I wasn’t just hooked on porn – I was hooked on shame.” Everyone’s kink is different. Some people want to be doms, some want to be subs. Some want nothing but missionary. Some people get hooked on gambling, some people get hooked on stuffing themselves into balloons to orgasm. Rule 34 isn’t true because of a counter culture of perverts, it’s true because we are, at heart, sexual creatures and we like to express it in whatever way gets us off. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/73 "2014-02-18T06:51:21Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > True, I don’t think they have to put suicide nets around porn shoots. > > There are plenty of women who make amateur porn for free (peace and blessings be upon them). But I don’t see how that isn’t debasing all the same. Like old reality TV shows where people eat bugs or chug fish eggs. I’m the opposite of an exhibitionist, so being in a porn movie would be dreadful for me. (That’s the only issue, of course. 😛 ) But I could see people of both sexes turned on by being lusted after by the general public. Those reality shows have tons of people applying, all of whom know more or less what they are getting into. Debasing, no. Crazy from my perspective, sure. However, I was on Jeopardy, (no bug eating required) and being the focus of attention on that stage, knowing millions of people have seen you, and getting the oohs and aahs of those who have fantasized about doing it is a rush. So, I kind of see it. ---
**Author:** ![geezer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d6d6ee/32.png) [@geezer1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geezer1)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/74 "2014-02-25T18:45:23Z")
IMO, porn fosters the concept that sexual pleasure is an individual thing, and tends to dehumanize the other party in the act . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/75 "2014-02-25T20:44:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (I don’t think anyone here is arguing that five-year-olds should be watching porn) I can’t think of any reason why they shouldn’t. It can’t possibly be harmful in any way, after all, until they’re at least old enough to partly understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/76 "2014-02-26T03:53:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [http://www.salon.com/2012/09/30/finding\_your\_kids\_porn/](http://www.salon.com/2012/09/30/finding_your_kids_porn/) > > Airial Clark, who coaches parents on talking to their kids about sex, argues that forbidding your adolescent from watching porn “doesn’t make you a prude or a hypocrite; it makes you a responsible adult.” She explains, “I am a strong advocate for age-appropriate sexuality education. I’m also a strong advocate for age of consent laws. I absolutely believe kids should not be viewing porn.” > > Laurence Steinberg, a professor of psychology at Temple University, agrees: “I don’t think that adolescents ought to be viewing Internet pornography, particularly at this young age, … In his book, “You and Your Adolescent,” Steinberg writes that “hard-core pornography links sex to aggression,” “distorts male-female relationships,” “ignores intimacy” and “presents an unrealistic picture of sexual behavior.” He also argues, “At a stage when young people have many doubts about their own bodies and sexual competency, it isn’t helpful to watch women with enormous breasts and men with huge penises mimicking sexual ecstasy.” > > Amy Lang, a sexual health educator and founder of Birds + Bees+ Kids, says: “Internet porn is generally way too much information about sex for a 13-year-old boy. He really doesn’t have the emotional or intellectual ability to make sense of what he’s viewing.” This is hilarious. In many cultures around the warmer parts of the world people go around basically naked. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/77 "2014-02-26T04:01:11Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > This is hilarious. In many cultures around the warmer parts of the world people go around basically naked. While I don’t agree with that author, it is worth noting that nudity is not sex. The Talk is important to the development of minors because it puts into context what they will see in porn (there’s no use pretending they won’t see it). Like in all things, minors need guidance from adults they can trust. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/78 "2014-02-26T04:04:15Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > This is hilarious. In many cultures around the warmer parts of the world people go around basically naked. San Francisco is **not** warm. (Yes I know that it has been more restricted in the last year or two) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/79 "2014-02-26T06:43:03Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > You start talking to Jimmy at the water cooler about the porn you saw last night and about the penis on _that_ guy and you lose your job as a start, with losing your wife, your kids, and getting put on an SO registry based on how traditional the area you live in is. Are you and Jimmy working at a nunnery or something ? I’ve never been much into water cooler talk myself, but the Jimmies of the world nevertheless told me more than I cared to know about their sex lives (including one who just couldn’t wait to tell everyone about that one night he banged a barely legal gymnast and would they please not tell his girlfriend but god_damn_ was it worth it). It’s what people do. The real issue could be separating the truth from the bullshit (because Jimmy usually lasts three hours in bed with a rock hard, diamond-cutting 16 incher) there but then if you can talk with, I dunno, your _partner_ about sex they might provide a reality check. Or they might earnestly vouch for Jimmy’s prowesses, in which case you have a different problem 😛 > [@](#): > > Thus, if you are young and inexperienced and watching porn, I can see a feeling of inadequacy grab you and shake you violently in a sort of head game. This would be exacerbated by the inaccessibility that many minors feel in discussing this sort of thing with both their parents and friends. Early to the end of high school teens can talk about general topics with friends, but they don’t admit they watch porn in many, many cases. Again, maybe times they have a-changed, and maybe Europe is different, but my 13 y.o. friends and I used to trade porn VHSs - I expect today they trade notable urls. Raided our parents’ libraries for books with the tiniest inkling of smut. Exchanged virginal pro tips about cunnilingus (that would probably land anyone in the hospital) and sexual urban legends we had totally done, pinky swear. Teenage boys are completely obsessed with sex… and never really cease to be. Girls might be a different story I suppose, but judging by all the giggling I wouldn’t bet on it ;). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705/80 "2014-02-26T07:09:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Again, maybe times they have a-changed, and maybe Europe is different, but my 13 y.o. friends and I used to trade porn VHSs - I expect today they trade notable urls. Raided our parents’ libraries for books with the tiniest inkling of smut. Exchanged virginal pro tips about cunnilingus (that would probably land anyone in the hospital) and sexual urban legends we had totally done, pinky swear. > Teenage boys are completely obsessed with sex… and never really cease to be. Girls might be a different story I suppose, but judging by all the giggling I wouldn’t bet on it ;). Nope, pretty much the same, except adjust VHS for era. There was a thread awhile back that finding porn in the woods was ubiquitous (?). In my experience, groups of girls talk about sex a lot more than guys. Commenting on the attractiveness of your waitress is not the same thing. Heh, what is the Europe version of Canada in “I did it with my girlfriend, who lives in Canada.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-harmful-is-pornography-anyway/680705.md?page=5)