I presume you find it sanctimonious to not believe in Father Christmas.
Not really, but I already implied that I think he’s a blithering idiot, both about that and trivia. However, it’s trivia night and he might be there, so I have to play nice. Little white lie to keep peace on the team or hypocrisy? I’m going with the former.
No, I believe we have already established both that Paul was an asshole and I’m willing to put up with assholes if I have to.
Is that anything like my Jewish grandfather who was also a Scottish Rite Mason?
You leave Santa out of this! 
No, what I’m referring to is the habit of some big-A Atheists to mock people of any religion, and to lord over them their greater enlightenment. And Dawkins stole my Romana II. :mad:
For the ELCA (and being Rostered Laity and a Worship Leader – ps – that “mass” thing? – we call it “worship” usually) I would say not at all or maybe just a smidge. If you look at Luther and the totality of his teachings its more about the journey or search than the destination. And living the Word more than pinning labels on yourself or asking others to do so. I am comfortable calling myself a Christian but if push came to shove I could live with being called a simple Deist.
And another PS – I work and am friends with several ordained atheists from the UU church. So having a congregation must not be that bad a thing.
Just how hypocritical am I?
I haven’t read any of the OP or replies yet. But to answer this one question:
You’re human, right? So very hypocritical. Although you realize enough to question it, so you are, in my book, less hypocritical than those humans who refuse to believe that they are.
Yeah, whatever. I still tend to call it mass. As I’ve said before, I once was a really good Catholic, but now I’m a piss-poor Lutheran. However, I do have a basic idea of what is kosher and what is not, like the time the then-youth minister was promoting Arianism to the [del]Lucifer[/del] Luther League. I may be an agnostic, but I am not a heretic!
Where I worry is that I’m only open about my lack of belief with those who ask, and you can bet that in a church nobody’s likely to ask. I feel like I’m living a lie, but that I’m providing a needed service to people I like with philosophies not THAT different from my own. But I’m of two minds about everything, being a Gemini.
Two books I’m on the fence with are a history of Christian hymnody, which could be more interesting if the author weren’t so “Thank God I’m a Lutheran!” all the fucking time, and another that suggests Bible verses and prayers based on your Myers-Briggs type which is so Franciscan and Jungian that it makes my head spin. The former I’ll probably keep in the library, but the latter I might keep for myself for a while. So far I’ve pulled about half of the books for offending my sensibilities.
The one thing that pings my meter is the communion thing, but that’s because I was raised Catholic. I just can’t really see what an agnostic would get out of receiving communion. But other than that, I don’t see anything wrong.
You just about describe the perfect Lutheran. 
Seriously, in the ELCA we run the spectrum from people and congregations that make hard-shell Baptists and Pentecostals look reasonable to congregations where the Bible is basically just literature and the average member is less a “believer” than you are. We’re probably the least uniform or organized of the Major Organized Religions. It gets into long explanations but a lot comes down to how we were formed out of the Seminex <sic?> Movement and all the small forms of Lutheranism that were included in all that. Some of the most extremes (both conservative and liberal) have left since the Sexuality Debates of the last 15 years but not that many. I’ve been at a couple Church Wide Assemblies and have spent time with other voting members who could very well be you. Those of us outside the mainstream tend to be careful about who we share and debate with (we follow the old rule about never arguing with crazy people) but we’re far from closeted or silent. So don’t feel bad - you may be a lot more normal than you think in our circles.
From the theological point of view, the same Grace that a believer does. And from the social point of view, it’s “the union in common”, it’s the gesture that truly binds together the people who have met in His name at that particular time and place.
I believe all religion is bad all of the time*. Some of it, like your type of church may be only a little bit bad, but if religion is a problem, and I believe it is, then even the good churches are a problem. By definition, the least of the problem but there for technically, still a problem.
The fact that you, one of the most active members of your church is agnostic and that your preacher themself has “doubts” illustrates my point exactly. This type of behavior is what is actually keeping the outdated practice of religion alive, the amount of people who don’t really believe but keep doing it because it reinforces their social life.
Having said that, you are human and no body is perfect. I myself am hypocritical at times. It is hard to escape. I do not think you are a bad person (obviously) but I do think your beliefs and actions are inconsistent. Maybe over time as your daughter grows older and if you get a chance to make friends in other social networks you could decrease you activity (or stop) with the church. But at the end of the day it is (honestly) your life, do what you wish.
*Maybe, if your kid had cancer and you were distraught some type of belief in good would help but that, but that type of “need” for faith is very very rare I think. Better in 99.9 of the situations to rely on you/your friends/your family to get you out of a bad situation.
I’d be pretty much cool with everything except this.
I understand that room must be made so new books can be brought in, but stripping a religious library of books about religion should be based on something more than just your opionion that they’re old crap you judge theologically inappropriate.
However, if your minister is okay with that, and okay that you’re receiving communion without actually believing in God, then I’m not going to criticize.
“Old,” in this case, means “hasn’t been checked out since 1986” (30-Years War, remember?) or “published in 1971 and the binding hasn’t been broken” or “just too unbearably '50s, '60s, or '70s.” The last is a theological judgement as much as it is aesthetic. Try reading Pop Religion books from a few decades ago and remember that we have enough old people and I’m leaving in plenty of stuff for them to not read, because they haven’t. We, as a parish, are trying to be more “relevant” (showing my age) to a younger crowd, and the library is dusty, musty, old, and unused. It’s not relevant to our present congregation, either, so my “mission” has been welcomed.
As for Dobson, he is a loathsome person and my original mission, as defined by our assistant pastor, called him out specifically as having no place in our library. Peale and Graham are my own call, but mostly because the books are so dated. The history of hymnody can stay, even though he doesn’t even mention Ste Hildegard von Bingen, because its author is at least Lutheran, though annoyingly so.
“Stripping a religious library of books about religion should be based on something more than just your opinion that they’re old crap you judge theologically inappropriate”? WTF? That’s my job as the librarian! They will be placed where interested parishioners can take them or say, “No, let’s keep this.” The leftovers will go to a charity that will distribute them to interested parties and recycle the leftovers. This pleases me because I know the old VHS tapes, some very interesting and useful, will have homes. Anyway, an earlier cull by another librarian was how I got my copy of Fox’s Martyrs.
Finally, regarding my pastor’s tolerance, let’s leave it at “Hope springs eternal.” Shit, as an usher I almost dragged Catholics up to Communion because it’s the same damned thing, despite Fox or our not being co-communicants yet (our Pope Liz and their Pope Frank have people working out the differences, and Frank gave a little wink that suggested that, as far as he’s concerned, it’s okay), and because I’m a Memorialist. Jesus told us to do it, I agree with much of his philosophy, and I have little reason to doubt his existence, so what the hell.
In response to the OP: “Traitor to the Cause”… that’s a bit harsh. I don’t think there’s a “war” going on, though I understand the sentiment. No, I don’t think you’re a hypocrite, but I don’t know all the intricacies of your motivations* (on both sides). However, that’s really not too important.
What’s important to remember is that just because something isn’t true doesn’t mean there isn’t value there.
God’s work? Shit… it’s human work. We’ve all got to take care of each other, no matter how it’s packaged.
Friendships and helping others should be paramount to any perceived dogmas.
*I didn’t fully read the details of you purging books, but that’s delicate territory.
No, NOT purging some is where the delicate touch comes in. The Property Commissioner said that, if he had his druthers, he’d purge them all because they are all so old and unread. But I think he has his eye on the little bit of real estate losing the shelves will open up. It’s one section of a large room that can be divided by curtains and the shelves take up square footage that can be counted on a couple people’s fingers and toes, but who knows? Or maybe he objects to how musty and dusty the books are and the threat of mildew. Or maybe he’s just thinking like me.
What I do know is that he wants to take out some shelves and put in a big TV. I said fine, but I’m not paying for it. I’m guarding my $500 budget jealously. How the fuck do you rebuild a library with five-hundred bucks? With “volunteers” who made the mistake of mentioning the library in recent years and donations from the flock, I suppose. I’m not an idea man, but I have a list of professional librarians in the parish and, with my Ritalin-fired courage and organization skills, I’m not afraid to buttonhole them. I should call a meeting.
ETA: And I need a fucking typewriter because somebody [del]stole[/del] needed mine that I had stashed behind the organ pipes.
I think you’re normal, but I read a lot of Giovanni Guareschi as a youth.
as has been said, you’re normal. Church-goers are a spectrum of people and you are (anecdotally) well within the normal range.
Oh, dear lord, the attic clearing has begun. I found under the card catalog a bag containing four video tapes and Matthew Henry’s Commentary, circa 1709, unabridged, printed in 1972, in three and six point type so it’s illegible, by a Puritan publisher! Perhaps I am not making myself clear enough.
Note: Anybody who says that it is a priceless relic of Nonconformist thinking three hundred years ago and that it has value because it influenced Protestant thinking in the American colonies can have it for THEIR library!
Just a little… :p:D