# Just how old IS the World's Oldest Profession? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364 "2009-04-08T06:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/1 "2009-04-08T06:03:07Z")
Just a random late night Question: Just how did prostitution get the term “the World’s Oldest Profession”? What’s the first documented account of prostitution? What about undocumented? My thoughts: I certainly doubt it was the world’s OLDEST profession (unless someone is pulling up the argument that primitive man being the hunter was trading food and protection in exchange for sex/procreation from primitive females, but I doubt that’s why it’s called the World’s Oldest Profession). So what’s the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/2 "2009-04-08T06:31:51Z")
Probably [older than language](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/sex-for-meat-ndash-how-chimps-seduce-their-mates-1665356.html) if any cross-species comparisons can be drawn. And there’s no reason to believe that our closest living cousins are much different than our species at a similar level of social and mental organization. In written history, the oldest codes of law that are known of, Sumerian and Babylonian, both have laws concerning prostitution. Whether this was purely commercial or ceremonial/religious is open to interpretation, but they did talk about it. It’s older than written language since cities existed in many places centuries before any form of writing is known to have been developed. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/3 "2009-04-08T09:34:58Z")
I just read a newsarticle (in dutch so I won’t link) that says anthropologists from the Max Planck Institute have found out that female chimpansees ‘sell’ sex. That is, they mate with males that occasionally give them meat. Sort gives the idea how early in development this practise occurs. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/4 "2009-04-08T13:29:08Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > I just read a newsarticle (in dutch so I won’t link) that says anthropologists from the Max Planck Institute have found out that female chimpansees ‘sell’ sex. That is, they mate with males that occasionally give them meat. How is that different from dating? ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/5 "2009-04-08T13:52:38Z")
I think if you are using the word profession then it has to be during an age of currency and commerce. Anything previous would not have been a profession and would probably fall under normal mating rules at the time. The hard part here is defining what prostitution and profession means and differentiating it from sex for favors or as a method to land a mate. [Interesting article on prostitution in ancient Greece here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_ancient_Greece) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/6 "2009-04-08T14:19:43Z")
_Old_ [Chimpanzees exchange meat for sex](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7988169.stm) ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/7 "2009-04-08T14:40:52Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > How is that different from dating? In dating you always give them meat and only occasionally get to mate. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/8 "2009-04-08T15:45:40Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > What about undocumented? The first undocumented prostitution took place in Times Square on January 20, 2009 at 12:06 pm when Ali al-Hassim al-Tikriti, a terrorist undercover as a New York City cabdriver, took a western whore to celebrate the Muslim Obama’s presidency. Before then God was always watching. The swearing-in killed him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/9 "2009-04-08T18:33:30Z")
> [@](#): > > (unless someone is pulling up the argument that primitive man being the hunter was trading food and protection in exchange for sex/procreation from primitive females, but I doubt that’s why it’s called the World’s Oldest Profession). I’m pretty sure that’s exactly why it’s called that. The problem is, in those early societies, both men and women contributed to obtaining food, so it’s hard to say that one was paying the other for anything. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/10 "2009-04-08T20:12:02Z")
Fair enough… So what about the etymology of the term “The World’s Oldest Profession”? How’d that first come about? (also, I recall there being an article once on how penguins too will trade sex for pebbles and the like to add to their nests, so that could be another example of “prostitution” in another species one even further removed from us). ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/11 "2009-04-09T03:41:49Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > Just a random late night Question: > > Just how did prostitution get the term “the World’s Oldest Profession”? > > What’s the first documented account of prostitution? > What about undocumented? > > My thoughts: I certainly doubt it was the world’s OLDEST profession (unless someone is pulling up the argument that primitive man being the hunter was trading food and protection in exchange for sex/procreation from primitive females, but I doubt that’s why it’s called the World’s Oldest Profession). So what’s the straight dope? Now from a believer. The Garden of Eden needed **“Gardeners”**. That is the “OLDEST PROFESSION” Thank you, **Please** ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/12 "2009-04-09T04:47:38Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > Now from a believer. > The Garden of Eden needed **“Gardeners”**. That is the “OLDEST PROFESSION” I don’t think they got paid for that. Unless we’re all God’s workers. But alright fair enough for the believers. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/13 "2009-04-09T07:03:39Z")
Engels traces it to the development of the “monogamous” family, which came into existence as a consequence of the development of private property. Men wanted their property to be passed to their children and so began to impose a code of monogamy on women so that they could ensure their children were really _theirs_. However, because they were not willing to give up their own sexual freedom, they continued to have sexual relations with women or girls either who were effectively held as slaves for this purpose or, later, who became professional prostitutes. He states that “the hierodulae of Anaitis in Armenia, of Aphrodite in Corinth and the religious dancing girls of India attached to the temple, the so-called bajaderes (dancing girls) were the first prostitutes”. ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/14 "2009-04-09T12:49:38Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > > [@Gbro](#): > > > > Now from a believer. > > The Garden of Eden needed **“Gardeners”**. That is the “OLDEST PROFESSION” > > Thank you, > > **Please** > > I don’t think they got paid for that. Unless we’re all God’s workers. But alright fair enough for the believers. I always thought that the Garden of Eden didn’t need tending (or in the alternative, Almighty God tended it himself, which would be a trivial task for omnipotence). IIRC, humans didn’t need to “work for a living” until after they’d been expelled from the Garden. For the believer who takes the Bible as the literal truth, the world’s oldest professions would be farmer (Cain) and shepherd (Abel), if I’m remembering Genesis correctly. Unless some mention is made of Adam’s profession after the expulsion from the Garden. Someone who’s read Genesis more recently than I can tell me what that was. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/15 "2009-04-09T15:13:11Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > I always thought that the Garden of Eden didn’t need tending (or in the alternative, Almighty God tended it himself, which would be a trivial task for omnipotence). > > IIRC, humans didn’t need to “work for a living” until after they’d been expelled from the Garden. For the believer who takes the Bible as the literal truth, the world’s oldest professions would be farmer (Cain) and shepherd (Abel), if I’m remembering Genesis correctly. Unless some mention is made of Adam’s profession after the expulsion from the Garden. Someone who’s read Genesis more recently than I can tell me what that was. > > Cheers, > > bcg [Genesis Chapter 2 verse 5](http://bible.logos.com/#q=&ref=Ge%201&ver=KJV&tab=home&content=), 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Man was created to till the Earth. Profession to me would mean what I would do to feed my family. My profession was Mechanic. The Lord gave me skill’s to be able to do this, and I had to depend on a Gardener to grow the food that I bought with my wages. I am not skilled in gardening;) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/16 "2009-04-09T17:46:19Z")
I think that to make sense of the question, you have to exclude work which directly leads to food production. Yes, a farmer works, but he doesn’t work for something he exchanges for food, he works for the food itself. So by that standard, gardener, farmer, hunter, herder, and gatherer would none of them be considered a “profession”. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/17 "2009-04-09T18:45:58Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Engels traces it to the development of the “monogamous” family, which came into existence as a consequence of the development of private property. Men wanted their property to be passed to their children and so began to impose a code of monogamy on women so that they could ensure their children were really _theirs_. However, because they were not willing to give up their own sexual freedom, they continued to have sexual relations with women or girls either who were effectively held as slaves for this purpose or, later, who became professional prostitutes. He states that “the hierodulae of Anaitis in Armenia, of Aphrodite in Corinth and the religious dancing girls of India attached to the temple, the so-called bajaderes (dancing girls) were the first prostitutes”. That is an interesting proposition, but I’m not sure I buy it. In the first place, not all agricultural societies have/had the concept of private property. (Feudal serfs did not own their own land, e.g.) The vast majority of anthropology and history I’ve read seems to assume that the more or less monogamous family has always existed. Passing on your genes being more important than passing on your property. (The severe sexism in most early agricultural societies stemming from men’s greater upper body strength and the need for that strength to plow.) ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/18 "2009-04-09T21:25:27Z")
Some experts say flintknapping is the oldest profession, and point out that some nonhuman primates (I think it was bonobos and chimpanzees) have social structures that include members who do flintknapping full time and are fed by the others in exchange for tools. But I don’t know whether this or prostitution, both of which sound like they predate the appearance of humans, is older. Maybe we should keep manufacturing and service industries separate? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/19 "2009-04-09T22:53:53Z")
I once read a novel where a character claimed that the true oldest profession was being a [shaman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism). That seems a pretty plausible answer to me, although flintknapper/toolmaker is a good answer too. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364/20 "2009-04-10T03:36:53Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Some experts say flintknapping is the oldest profession, and point out that some nonhuman primates (I think it was bonobos and chimpanzees) have social structures that include members who do flintknapping full time and are fed by the others in exchange for tools. > > But I don’t know whether this or prostitution, both of which sound like they predate the appearance of humans, is older. > > Maybe we should keep manufacturing and service industries separate? No animals other than humans have knowledge of flintknapping. Chimps and bonobos strip branches to make sticks to fish for termites, use rocks to bash nuts, and shred leaves to create sponges to gather water. Their social structure does not include any sort of professions. Cite as to where you heard this? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-old-is-the-worlds-oldest-profession/492364.md?page=2)