Just how religious is the US?

Great Debates
21

I read an analysis somewhere years ago by some “expert” that the reason the US is more religious than most of Europe is that religions here had to compete in the free market, and were more tailored to what people wanted. In Europe, religion was often a state sponsored enterprise, with most countries having established churches that did not have the same need to adapt to the needs of the people.

I’m not endorsing that view, just throwing it out there as one possible explanation.

Where I live (in Silicon Valley), religion isn’t a big deal. Sure, most people are believers, but I have no issues or problems with being a non-believer. Not sure you could get elected as an avowed atheist, but politicians around here don’t talk about religion very much.

Also, since we have a large East Asian and Indian population, we have lots of people who aren’t of the Abrahamic religious tradition.

22

Wait, where do you live? Because I live in South Carolina and that is by no means the case. (I do work in a profession that requires a masters’ degree in the state capitol with a major university nearby, of course.) Sure, some people don’t believe in evolution, I’m helping a woman do an opinion school paper against “Darwinism” even as we speak. But plenty of people do. I had absolutely no problem finding a guy to date who believes in evolution, full stop.

23

It really depends on where you are in the US. I wouldn’t say I am “frightened” to call myself a non-believer but there is often uncomfortableness if the subject comes up because so many people assume that Christian church-goer is the norm. Atheist = Anti-Christian in many people’s minds as well and not a just few churches profit on the idea that atheists are trying to topple our God-fearing nation.

For example, in the south I often have been invited to church by people I have just met. Church is the social outlet. Or maybe they are testing me, I don’t know. In any case, those people wouldn’t be too surprised if I said “sorry I go to church X” but they can be a little put out if I say “I don’t believe in God.” I suppose it is off-putting to hear that someone rejects your beliefs so completely. If your preacher has been railing against the evil atheists tearing down America it would probably be weird to meet one in real life.

I don’t think anyone would ever ask about my religion in a job interview. They would invite me to their church and see how I answer. And I would say “sure, love to visit your church once I’m working for you.”

24

I suppose it doesn’t surprise me that there is a British background to all this, but I like to think, probably misguidedly, that we have grown out of it now and are a bit more rational.

Well I read a very interesting article about the Alpha group and the conversion of a minor celebrity, and it did sound very much like hypnotism. Here’s what some other people say. I hope it’s okay to quote so much, I know most people won’t want to find the specific bits in the articles:

http://www.pfo.org/alpha-cr.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ar/brian1933homepage/alphabody.html

An interesting Alpha experience http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2000/oct/21/weekend7.weekend

25

My experience from living for three years in the U.K. and seven visits back there since then compared with spending all the rest of my life in the U.S. is that the difference in religious belief in the U.S. and the U.K. is actually somewhat exaggerated.

First, Americans tend to lie about their level of faith. Comparisons between polls on attendance at church and actual attendance at church shows that the average number of times that an American goes to church in a year is slightly less than half of the number of times that they claim to go there. Also, Americans tend to have far less of a well-thought-out belief system than you might gather from their claims to be a member of some religion. Often their supposed strong faith is little more than going to church and occasionally mentioning their church to the people they know who don’t go to church. If you ask them what they believe, you will quickly hit a muddle in their thoughts.

Second, Britons tend to be very circumspect in their religious faith. It can often take a while in knowing someone to discover that they do believe in God and do go to church. Being enthusiastic about something is just not British. They don’t talk about their religious beliefs because pushing one’s faith on someone else would be considered obnoxious. Being pushy about things like that is what they consider jerks, like a lot of Americans for instance, do.

Yes, Americans are more religious on average. No, they are not as much more religious on average as you might think from superficial observation. There is a large difference between what people believe and what is considered to be the sort of thing that one talks about in ordinary conversation.

26

I wonder how much the American spirit is part of all this. Religion in the UK is pretty weak, the idea is generally to be nice to other people, and to realize that the bible is a bunch of parables not the word of God. However if someone really does believe in heaven and hell, and does think there are rules that should and should not be followed then why don’t they follow them as going to heaven ought to be the goal in someone’s life?

I think there are more Americans than British who are willing to try to do what’s required, they are in fact using more logic than we are, and thinking more about their beliefs than we do (on average). In some way religious fundamentalism is more logical and easier to understand, although the harder work may explain why it’s not so popular.

Part of what has made America the success it is, is the ability to work hard toward a goal, to accept new ideas, and to follow them through. I wonder if there’s some of that at play here.

27

You’re painting with a very broad brush here. Most people who describe themselves as religious believe in evolution and don’t really think about angels or devils in the flesh. There are fundamentalists, and literalists but they are a distinct minority. Most people who go to church aren’t at all like you imagine.

28

Whether we are as religious as it appears is not the problem. It is a huge force in politics. All politicians have to say and do what the really religious demand. Therefore it is a huge problem in America. The religious are capitalists competing for the money of the same groups of people.

29

I agree with you, and I was just talking about the fundamentalists, sorry I should have made it clearer. But there are still quite a few of them, and they are much more interesting that your standard Jesus was a nice guy and we should all be nice kind of Christian.

30

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-american-religion-ARIS_N.htm
Here is an article that says religion is losing ground in America. Those who claim no religious affiliation have nearly doubles in the last decade or so. There is hope.

31

Here’s an anecdote that’s only partially related to one of the topics being discussed:

There was a student at the university where I teach. He was determined to major in Biology. Why? He wanted to become an “expert” who could testify against the theory of evolution. That was his entire life goal.

I don’t think he succeeded though.

32

From The Next American Nation, by Michael Lind:

33

Seattle, Washington data point…

–Are people frightened to say they are atheists?

No, not physically except for very rednecky areas, but those same areas would be just as hostile toward an Obama bumper sticker. There is tremendous pressure to at least be “spiritual”, however, whether it be tarot, wicca, buddhist, etc. It is rare to find an athiest without spiritual qualifiers.

–Is it only certain areas where caution is required?

Yes, per the redneck comment. Seattle goes from metropolitan to backwoods snakecharming pentacostal deliveranceville in only a 15 minute drive.

–If you say you don’t believe in God what would happen to you?

It’s mostly seen as a social miscue. The culture here is of absolute tolerance of anyone’s pet minority fringe spirituality. It is a greater concern that you may offend a wiccan than offending a catholic.

–Is almost everyone around you a believer?

Yes, in a wishy-washy spiritual way. No one in my social circle of family or friends are church goers, though.

–How many people do you know who don’t believe in evolution?

None in my family/friend circle. I work outside of Seattle though, and there are quite a few conservative fundamentalists that I suspect don’t believe in evolution.

–How many people do you know who believe there are angels walking on the Earth?

None

–If you applied for a job and were asked about your religion would you be happy to say you have none?

It would depend if I needed the job badly. I would prefer to answer honestly, then report them to the dept of labor for discriminatory behavior. If I needed the job badly, I’d tell them I was a Nova Scotian witchdoctor if it was what they were looking for.

34

It’s worth noting that religion is largely absent from mainstream American pop culture. There are exceptions to everything, but Christian rock is almost never played on mainstream stations, Christian TV and preacher radio has migrated to its own separate channels, and Christian-themed movies are a separate market, almost exclusively direct-to-video.

Almost no one on national TV attends church regularly apart from the Simpsons. Very few people pray in mainstream movies; my guess is that religion features most prominently in horror films involving demons. Positive portrayals of churches in pop culture tend to be generic lively places with happy people (Amen, Forrest Gump, Sister Act), but little actual religion. Negative portrayals are just as common and tend to depict authoritarian or corrupt clergy (Footloose, Doubt, Angels and Demons). Comic books often use religious iconography, but it’s usually handled as a variation on space opera or mythology.

There are a few exceptions. 7th Heaven was a mainstream show about a religious family that ran successfully until the actress playing the daughter decided she wanted to go pose nearly nude in various magazines. 18 Kids and Counting depicts a religious family, although the draw there is their freakish reproduction, not their faith.

To be sure, there are essentially no declared atheists in pop culture either.

35

One of my best friends at work is an atheist. I give him grief about it all the time as does he me towards my religion. It’s all in good fun. He’s never been shy about expressing his thinking but I’ve never seen anyone be openly hostile to him about it. That’s kind of surprising since we’re smack-dab in the middle of the Bible belt. It probably has something to do with him being one of the smartest people that I’ve ever met.

36

Pete Stark is an avowed atheist, and he just got re-elected to Congress in 2010. He’s from Fremont, which I think is close enough to Silicon Valley for your purposes.

37

This is true of cultural products whose first object is the religious content, and for a readily understandable reason: most of it sucks.

People who set out to be Christian musicians, per se, on average just aren’t as good as people who set out to be musicians (many of whom are Christians, even devoutly so, and may well write some songs with Christian themes). There are plenty of country and R&B musicians who perform such songs and get them on mainstream radio stations (granted, the country and R&B audiences are more receptive to such material)–but they’re really driven by musicality more than religion. Josh Turner’s “Long Black Train” is wholly and explicitly religious in its lyrics, but became a hit more for its gently chugging rhythm, some very good production, and that voice. People may claim that the message is most important, but in fact they don’t make gold singles out of any song that asserts there’s “victory in the Lord.” Turner’s other hits were all love songs.

38

Just so you know, Washington consistently ranks pretty high on the lists of “least religious” and “least churched” states. Many parts of the rest of the country are more religious.

39

If I applied for a job and were asked about my religion, I would be happy to file a report with the appropriate government agencies. Such practice is illegal under both state and federal law, and I would certainly not answer. That law protects everyone, by the way; as there is no majority denomination, religious discrimination can go every which way.

To your other questions:

Not around here (Oakland, California), they’re not.

Certain areas of the country, and even the state, yes. There are no such areas locally, though.

This question is kind of weird, because I’m pretty sure most atheists don’t make a point of bringing it up in every conversation, so it’s not as though one is “branded” as such. I suppose this does apply to gossipy small towns where word gets around after one mention, but I have no experience with that.

I don’t ask everyone I meet about their religious beliefs or lack thereof. I get the impression that in some places people wear their religion on their sleeve, but that’s not the case here. I have no idea what the local ratio of believers is, but I certainly don’t get the impression that being a non-believer is rare.

None that have made it known to me; it’s not a topic I frequently discuss. Nonetheless, I would be surprised if someone told me they didn’t believe in evolution.

Is that a common belief? I don’t think I’ve ever even heard of that. Angels are in heaven, and only visit Earth for bad movies (and one decent movie in the case of Dogma). :slight_smile:

I don’t feel any particular malice towards believers in general. As to stupid/ignorant/crazy, I only feel that way about particular beliefs (e.g. Biblical literalism, homophobia) and certain specific religious groups (most especially Scientology).

40

Presuming you are talking about self-described religious Americans, this is not true. Less than half of the country believes in evolution, and that percentage declines with increase in religious service attendance. In addition, more than half of the country believes in angels and, though it’s a little more muddled, belief in Satan hovers around the 50% mark.

The US is quite religious, don’t be fooled. Though it tends to be less apparent in urban areas, in my opinion this is because there are so many different religions and houses of worship that it’s less unified and so less talked about.