# Just how reprehensible can you be in the Pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 22, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820 "2019-11-22T16:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/101 "2019-11-23T05:10:36Z")
This was a huge mistake. I think the idea that Shodan just happened to settle on those insults for Margin, time after time, completely by coincidence is absolutely ludicrous. There’s a lot more to say, but to be honest at this point I feel so crappy about this board that I don’t think it’s worth the effort. I hope the three people (at least) in this thread who expressed how little is keeping them here do decide to stay despite this, but I can’t blame them if they do leave. At least, I hope they’ll check out Giraffe Boards and stay a part of the greater community. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/102 "2019-11-23T05:14:06Z")
Since I’ve disagreed on this sort of thing before (as I think attacking someone for their mental illness should be seen the same any other directly bigoted attack, and the worst forms seen as hate speech), I wanted to say that I think that what **Miller** has said here sounds entirely reasonable. It’s difficult to moderate without info. Is it satisfying? No. But I respect the decision not to say it can’t ever be moderated, but also that you just don’t have enough to get involved. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/103 "2019-11-23T05:37:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve always wondered if the Pit creates more tension then it releases, and the above is part of what I am talking about. Look, we can agree on something!😃 Other than rants, the PIT doesnt really serve a useful purpose. People dont change their ways by being pitted, and a few posters, when they can’t get a good Pitting going, start what amounts to a Pitting in ATMB. This is a good example. This is pretty nasty. And some years ago, the PTB here allowed stalking and harassment of a member from another board- but only in the Pit (they stopped it in other forums). I will point out that the (_Well we only allowed illegal internet harassment in the Pit_) excuse wouldn’t work if that person complained to various outside parties. But leave the Pit here for rants, it’s great for that. Take out the insulting other posters. It does no good at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/104 "2019-11-23T05:43:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure if it violates the rules (and I think I reported it, but my phone was wonky yesterday), but **Steophan** called me a pedophile in that same thread: Yeah, that is very very wrong also. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/105 "2019-11-23T05:44:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Just to add to the “he knows perfectly well I have PTSD” discussion - when I Pitted the poster in question back in 2011, I asked specifically if she suffered from mental issues, and offered to back off if she did. I do not recall receiving any response. > > … Lack of a response is not a excuse. and 2011? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/106 "2019-11-23T05:45:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I’d like to go on record as saying I think this decision is very disappointing, as well as **Shodan’s** failure to apologize to **margin**. If he did make an honest mistake, then an apology costs him nothing. Agreeing with both parts of this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/107 "2019-11-23T05:45:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You realize that the stickied thread in the BBQ Pit, by that same administrator, EXPLICITLY disagrees with you? So what? Those rules are not followed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/108 "2019-11-23T05:46:55Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > … > > On a related note, the Pit sucks shit. It should be deleted. People don’t need a “release valve”. They need to act like adults, and if they can’t refrain from attacking other posters in the other forums then they should be banned for their own good. > > … Get rid of the Pit. No-one needs it, and only the wrong people like it. I concur, except for general ranting. I like a good rant, but I dont like to post in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/109 "2019-11-23T05:49:26Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The first and most important rule on the Straight Dope Message Board is “ **don’t be a jerk** ”. So while you can write contrived, you are wrong. I know you’ve been told this before, the most important rule is “ **don’t be a jerk** ”. > > One more time just for you: “ **don’t be a jerk** ”. That rule apparently doesnt apply in the Pit, and dont ry to tell me it does. A solid fraction of Pit posts are totally jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/110 "2019-11-23T05:53:55Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/111 "2019-11-23T05:54:14Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I ask this in good faith and total seriousness: > > Do insults and taunts from others on a message board really affect many of you as deeply as it seems? Do you seriously get offended if someone with nothing but a computer and a clever nickname claims your kids are morons or your mother wears army boots? These insults coming from someone who, I think we can all agree, truly knows nothing about your kids’ intelligence nor your mother’s choice of footwear? > > Do these slights actually affect your lives or your sense of self-worth _at all_? First off, what does this question have to do with this thread? The situation here is one where the person does actually know about the metaphorical “mother’s footwear.” What makes **Shodan** ’s attack on someone for being mentally ill so bad is that they are 100% aware that they were mentally ill and why. He is deliberately using someone’s personal weakness in an attempt to cause them psychological damage. He has that much contempt for a woman in combat. And the way he does it so casually demonstrates that he regularly does worse. But, even if you posted this in a more appropriate thread–one where the insulter did not know the victim at all, the logic here is weird. People don’t get offended because they actually believe what the person says. No black person is offended by racists because they actually think their race is inferior. They are offended because that belief that is stated is actually one that causes harm to them. Same thing here. The belief that it’s okay to belittle those with mental illnesses is harmful to those of us with mental illnesses. It sees us as less than human, and thus you can treat us poorly, dismiss our needs, leave us in places where we are inhumanely treated, etc. If we don’t stand up and say that belief is offensive, then that belief will continue, and thus so will the actions based on it. There’s also embedded in the comment a level of misogyny and a hatred towards those who suffered in the military for us. Both of those ideas also cause harm. Hell, those ideas directly lead to the situation that **margin** described–women not being supported in combat and winding up with PTSD. So, sure. The comment itself may not cause any harm or change in my life beyond anger in the moment. But the comment does not exist in a vacuum. It is part of something bigger than can and does cause harm. Though, frankly, if you ask most people, they probably don’t even think this far about it–it’s more automatic. Emotions tend to be. However, as someone who deals with both appropriate and inappropriate anger in his own life, I’ve taken the time to sit down and think about why I react this way. And, while not everyone’s trigger is like mine, I think the underlying idea is a basic part of the human experience. Though I invite others who have considered why things make them angry to say other things. I do wonder, however, if it would be better served in a separate thread about the topic. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/112 "2019-11-23T06:30:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Just to add to the “he knows perfectly well I have PTSD” discussion - when I Pitted the poster in question back in 2011, I asked specifically if she suffered from mental issues, and offered to back off if she did. I do not recall receiving any response. This does not fly. Your statement itself proves you did know. You specifically mentioned her being in a psych ward, asking if she had returned. That means you know she had a psychological problem. You are being cagey with your wording. You are trying to imply you didn’t know by using true facts. But the intent is still to mislead people to a false conclusion. You would not have mentioned a psych ward specifically if you did not remember that she had some sort of mental illness. Though I do thank you for posting further evidence that you knew. You could have argued the thread was in 2011 and you’d forgotten the details, but now you show you remember them. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/113 "2019-11-23T06:48:41Z")
Oh, and none of the above is to say that, in my own case, that sometimes my level of anger is disproportional. That is what I have in fact figured out is my issue. I have trouble with proportionality at times. However, I do not think the anger expressed on this topic is disproportionate at all. The only reason I didn’t make a post expressing that anger is that others have said it better. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/114 "2019-11-23T07:39:24Z")
Oh, look, the mods went with “Let’s give the \*\*guy **we just recently suspended** for trolling \*\*the benefit of the doubt” :smack: It’s no surprise, really, at this point (_points at rest of ATMB dumpster fire_) how could it be. But it’s still disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/115 "2019-11-23T07:45:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **Shodan** himself provided a link to a thread where he asked **margin** if she had an actual diagnosis, and offered to back off if she did, but she never answered. This is evidence that he did not, in fact, know about **margin** ’s history with mental illness This is bullshit. If I ask someone if they have an actual diagnosis, it means they’ve said they have a problem, and I’m calling bullshit. Which means I \*do \*know, I’m just an asshole about believing them. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/116 "2019-11-23T08:29:31Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > One of the reasons why the Pit exists is that there are so many rules for other forums. For example, you can’t call out an obvious troll for trolling outside of the Pit. And you can’t call an obvious liar a liar, or a racist, a racist, etc. The racist isn’t modded, the person who calls racism racism is. > > The board’s rules are driving people away because they favor obnoxious, hateful, and adamantly stupid posters who are all but free to post what they will, as long as they are outside of the Pit and careful with their phrasing. Posters who contribute nothing other than a dumbing down of the board stay; good posters, especially women, leave. > > This board will end with just a few posters, Shodan among them, the rest of us driven away. The difficulty is, is that people who are objecting to the toxification of the board by the Usual Suspects are being dismissed as being partisan. Let me be _very_ clear. This is not a partisan reaction, not a game of “us vs. them.” This is basic human decency decrying a small group of reactionary right posters who routinely dehumanize and degrade those who are only now beginning to receive the equal treatment that they deserve as human beings. I can, and will, continue to have an debate an honest conservative, but these three or four (and really, it is that few) are, and always have been, unwilling to debate in an honest manner. They are unwilling to deal honestly with their fellow posters, and they are unwilling to treat their fellow human beings with basic respect and courtesy. They substitute, instead, faux civility barely masking venom and spite for anyone who isn’t a right-wing white male “conservative” like themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/117 "2019-11-23T09:05:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, that is very very wrong also. No it’s not. **iiandyiiii** has repeatedly said, in the thread being discussed here, that unsupported accusations of sexual crimes are perfectly acceptable. He’s just a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/118 "2019-11-23T11:56:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it’s not. **iiandyiiii** has repeatedly said, in the thread being discussed here, that unsupported accusations of sexual crimes are perfectly acceptable. He’s just a hypocrite. Wait, you’re making an accusation against me? I thought it was just throw away silliness. Absolutely, all accusations and allegations of sexual assault and rape should be taken seriously. If you’re making an accusation against me, then I will cooperate with any investigation, as would be appropriate in order to treat such allegations with seriousness. I invite you to speak about your experiences, and there is never anything wrong with someone honestly sharing their story. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/119 "2019-11-23T12:06:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure if it violates the rules (and I think I reported it, but my phone was wonky yesterday), but **Steophan** called me a pedophile in that same thread: > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, that is very very wrong also. One of the rare times I agree with **DrDeth**. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820/120 "2019-11-23T12:26:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This was a huge mistake. I think the idea that Shodan just happened to settle on those insults for Margin, time after time, completely by coincidence is absolutely ludicrous. > > There’s a lot more to say, but to be honest at this point I feel so crappy about this board that I don’t think it’s worth the effort. > > I hope the three people (at least) in this thread who expressed how little is keeping them here do decide to stay despite this, but I can’t blame them if they do leave. At least, I hope they’ll check out Giraffe Boards and stay a part of the greater community. I agree. This is not the first time Shodan has said this kind of thing to margin. His defense is that he’s an asshole to everyone he disagrees with. But he wasn’t disagreeing with her–he wasn’t engaging with her in that thread. Out of the blue he questions her about a psych ward visit. And he’s got a history here! He’s not some poster who took a debate too far in a heated moment. I’m done. This isn’t a place I want to be anymore. There’s just too much misogyny and racism and transphobia and gratuitous nastiness, and it’s just not worth it to stick around for the “do farts smell” threads. In the name of “diversity of opinion,” the mods are going to drive out everyone but a handful of posters. And we all know who they are. So, yeah, this is my grand farewell. I wouldn’t make it except to make a point: women are indeed leaving this board. And I won’t let the door hit me on my way out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-reprehensible-can-you-be-in-the-pit/843820.md?page=7)