# Just how stupid do you have to be?? (Marine One security breach) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011 "2009-03-02T14:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/1 "2009-03-02T14:59:16Z")
Pretty damned stupid, I guess, to have sensitive national security information on your computer and use a file-sharing program at the same time on the same computer! [Obama helicopter security breached](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29447088) > [@](#): > > … > > Employees of Tiversa, a Cranberry Township, Pa.-based security company that specializes in peer-to-peer technology, reportedly found engineering and communications information about Marine One at an IP address in Tehran, Iran. > > Bob Boback, CEO of Tiversa, told WPXI-TV: “We found a file containing entire blueprints and avionics package for Marine One, which is the president’s helicopter.” > > The company was able to trace the file back to its original source. > > “What appears to be a defense contractor in Bethesda, Md., had a file-sharing program on one of their systems that also contained highly sensitive blueprints for Marine One,” Boback said. > > Tiversa also found sensitive financial information about the cost of the helicopter on that same computer, WPXI-TV reported. > > Someone from the company most likely downloaded a file-sharing program, typically used to exchange music, not realizing the potential problems, Boback said. > > … Now, if I were a conspiracy theorist, which I’m not (usually), I’d think it was a hell of a coincidence that just last week President Obama reacted to [McCain’s disingenuous whining](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/mccain-grills-obama-on-ma_n_169267.html) about an order of [new Marine One helicopters](http://www.livescience.com/technology/060507_marine_one.html) (that were ordered and fucked up by Bush) that have dramatically [jumped in cost](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/16/AR2008031602936.html) from $6.1 billion to $11.2 billion, by saying that he’d look into the matter because the current Marine One fleet seemed just fine to him, and then within a matter of days, something comes up that would seem to be a dangerous security breach about the old fleet, perhaps prompting thoughts that well, maybe, you know, Obama better go ahead and get the new helicopters after all instead of canceling the order. Can’t be too cautious, right? But, nah, that’s crazy loony talk! It’s just a coincidence. It would, however, be mighty interesting if that “embarrassed” employee soon started driving a fancy new car, and maybe going on expensive vacations. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/2 "2009-03-02T17:29:03Z")
I think you just answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/3 "2009-03-02T17:56:22Z")
One man’s conspiracy is another man’s lateral thinking.\* Personally, though, I always assume [Hanlon’s Razor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor) applies. An inadvertent firewall breach is more likely than deliberate sabotage. - Joke. I do not condone national security breaches, especially deliberate ones for the purposes of justifying expenditure, no matter who the President is. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/4 "2009-03-02T18:25:22Z")
Presumably, this means that there is a file-sharing program that shares, by default, the user’s entire drive or at least their “user” or “my documents” files. I’ve used a lot of different file-sharing programs, and I’ve never encountered one that does that. Usually, they have their own sub-directory and you have to explicitly configure what directories to share. Doesn’t pass the smell test to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/5 "2009-03-02T18:31:31Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Presumably, this means that there is a file-sharing program that shares, by default, the user’s entire drive or at least their “user” or “my documents” files. I’ve used a lot of different file-sharing programs, and I’ve never encountered one that does that. Usually, they have their own sub-directory and you have to explicitly configure what directories to share. > > Doesn’t pass the smell test to me. Some news program (on NBC, I believe) last night was talking about one couple and how their tax returns info was “shared” out and stolen by an identity thief via a file-sharing program. The couple claims that their kids installed it and they didn’t know what it was, they just thought the kids were listening to music. I would suspect some trojan downloaded via the service (disguised as a movie file or something) rather than the program itself. Oh, and **Equipoise** , it wasn’t national security info in question but I’ve seen some hardcore viruses and other bad stuff on research computers before. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if someone actually did get a downloaded Trojan onto that computer. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/6 "2009-03-02T18:41:03Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Presumably, this means that there is a file-sharing program that shares, by default, the user’s entire drive or at least their “user” or “my documents” files. I’ve used a lot of different file-sharing programs, and I’ve never encountered one that does that. Usually, they have their own sub-directory and you have to explicitly configure what directories to share. > > Doesn’t pass the smell test to me. I’m not too sure if the smell test hasn’t been passed. I know a guy who had an identity theft problem that he traced back to a peer-to-peer application. Then again, he was later arrested for embezzlement, so what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/7 "2009-03-02T18:54:52Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Presumably, this means that there is a file-sharing program that shares, by default, the user’s entire drive or at least their “user” or “my documents” files. I’ve used a lot of different file-sharing programs, and I’ve never encountered one that does that. Usually, they have their own sub-directory and you have to explicitly configure what directories to share. > > Doesn’t pass the smell test to me. Supposedly some older P2P programs share the My Documents folder by default. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/8 "2009-03-02T19:05:10Z")
You tell that little pissant Ahmadinejad that for every VH-3D of ours he takes out, we’ll take out two of his. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/9 "2009-03-02T20:03:48Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Supposedly some older P2P programs share the My Documents folder by default. I’ve seen people before, out of laziness or ignorance, just select the top tree (root) of their disk instead of managing where files come and go. Most people do not know the difference between user/admin/shared locations or care to know the difference. You know…the same people whose desktops are littered with unused shortcuts and multiple leftover installer packages for iTunes and Acroreader? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/10 "2009-03-02T20:51:57Z")
Found this amusing. From the McCain Whining link: > [@](#): > > Obama, too, has criticized the price of the fleet of 28 **planes** , which is expected to cost the taxpayer more than $11 billion dollars. Idiot reporter. We’re talking _helicopters_, not _planes_. Sheesh. “But I have to find something else to call them, otherwise I’m being too repetitive.” How about calling them monkeys? That’s something else. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/11 "2009-03-02T21:04:52Z")
What I found much more intriguing about this article is that we apparently have companies who get paid to go rummaging around through machines in Tehran and can do it with enough accuracy that they can figure out where the files came from originally… Sort of reads like a plot from 24 – "We’ve got the plans for the avionics package, so now we’ll take control of Marine-One and \* rule the world! \*. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/12 "2009-03-02T22:09:54Z")
Early P2P clients (Kazaa, Limewire) did indeed share the mydocuments folder by default. Often, word processing programs have similar naming conventions for the auto save draft. In addition, most of those clients had a “search other documents by this user.” If one finds a juicy lead they literally have access to someone’s entire document library. Honestly, I’m surprised there haven’t been more stories like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/13 "2009-03-03T12:11:08Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Now, if I were a conspiracy theorist, which I’m not (usually), I’d think it was a hell of a coincidence that just last week President Obama reacted to [McCain’s disingenuous whining](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/mccain-grills-obama-on-ma_n_169267.html) about an order of [new Marine One helicopters](http://www.livescience.com/technology/060507_marine_one.html) This statement kind of suggests to me you’re ignorant. Characterizing a Senator’s concern over government spending as “disingenuous whining” is ludicrous, and also shows you’re completely misinformed on the situation at hand. I suppose in the race to condemn any comments made by the evil Republicans towards Obama you probably weren’t aware that McCain had been complaining about the cost of the new Marine One fleet since long before the election. So it’s obviously not a complaint that came up just because **he** doesn’t get to fly around in them. Even more interesting _Obama himself_ had the same complaints during the campaign! And they are both in agreement that at present the new fleet is way too expensive. Moreover a general concern over the cost overruns of the new Marine One fleet were used several times in the past few years to highlight some of the serious problems with DoD acquisitions processes–this wasn’t a random dig at Obama from McCain, and even Obama didn’t take it that way (because thankfully he actually appears to understand issues before opening his mouth about them unlike many of his supporters.) ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/14 "2009-03-03T12:24:38Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Supposedly some older P2P programs share the My Documents folder by default. Yup, some can also be configured to search your drives for shareable files – if you’re into filesharing e-books that might pick up some stuff you didn’t intend to share. I remember at the dawn of file-sharing that you could search for passwords.txt and generally get real files where people stored their passwords so they wouldn’t forget. You used to be able to do the same thing with numpties that had accidentally pushed their whole documents folder to the web. Not that I was doing anything bad, you understand, I was working for IT security at the time and I collected examples of stupid. I don’t doubt that if you fired up a p2p program today and poked around you could find some stuff people didn’t intend to share. But be careful, a number of these things are honey-traps set by spammers and hackers (and probably some legit security people). SD ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/15 "2009-03-03T15:43:57Z")
**Martin Hyde** , thank you for that information. You’re right, I wasn’t aware that McCain (or Obama) had spoken up about the helicopters during the campaign. My apologies to McCain. [QUOTE=Finagle] What I found much more intriguing about this article is that we apparently have companies who get paid to go rummaging around through machines in Tehran and can do it with enough accuracy that they can figure out where the files came from originally.. [/QUOTE] I know! I thought that was interesting too. Plus the fact that Wesley Clark is an adviser to that company. Why isn’t he in the Obama Administration anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/16 "2009-03-03T15:49:16Z")
Oh my god! They now have the technology of the helicopter! And they know the price too! ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/17 "2009-03-03T19:28:07Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Some news program (on NBC, I believe) last night was talking about one couple and how their tax returns info was “shared” out and stolen by an identity thief via a file-sharing program. The couple claims that their kids installed it and they didn’t know what it was, they just thought the kids were listening to music. > > I would suspect some trojan downloaded via the service (disguised as a movie file or something) rather than the program itself. > > Oh, and **Equipoise** , it wasn’t national security info in question but I’ve seen some hardcore viruses and other bad stuff on research computers before. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if someone actually did get a downloaded Trojan onto that computer. I caught the end of that news clip and didn’t the say they found thousands and thousands of tax returns online? The P2P programs are notorious for being virus breeding grounds ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/18 "2009-03-04T23:19:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] Oh my god! They now have the technology of the helicopter! And they know the price too! [/QUOTE] You seem to be dismissing the threat. This is not a case of learning how to build a helicopter, and how much these cost. It is learning the security features - not just that they exist, but what they are, their specs, and potentially how to get around them. That’s why it is serious. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/19 "2009-03-05T00:48:10Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > It is learning the security features - not just that they exist, but what they are, their specs, and potentially how to get around them. That’s why it is serious. You’re worried someone will boost Marine One? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011/20 "2009-03-05T04:15:57Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > You’re worried someone will boost Marine One? I know nothing about this stuff, but if they have the avionics information, couldn’t a bright and inventive electronics/computer guru possibly find some way to control the helicopter from the ground via remote control? I have nightmares about that sort of thing causing the helicopter to crash. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-how-stupid-do-you-have-to-be-marine-one-security-breach/488011.md?page=2)