# Just in case you thought all the bad gun stories came out of the US... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230 "2008-11-05T06:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/41 "2008-11-06T21:43:03Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > However, this here story is in Australia - where, if we’re to believe **firstname** , there just aren’t many guns at all. There being so few guns, it follows then, that almost nobody knows how to properly and safely handle one. Or teach anyone else how. I’m from Australia, and I’ve handled guns in Australia and in the US. So I know how to handle guns, and I don’t think I’m that atypical. However, I would not expect an 8-year-old kid to know how to. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/42 "2008-11-06T22:18:27Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I’m from Australia, and I’ve handled guns in Australia and in the US. So I know how to handle guns, and I don’t think I’m that atypical. So you’re saying that **firstname** is wrong? There are a goodly number of guns, and by extension, a goodly number of people around who are capable of handling them safely? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/43 "2008-11-06T22:31:12Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > So you’re saying that **firstname** is wrong? There are a goodly number of guns, and by extension, a goodly number of people around who are capable of handling them safely? Well, there used to be more guns than there are now, so older people are more likely to have handled guns. People living in the country are more likely to have guns than those in the city – though I’m definitely a city boy – and a lot of people are in professions where you handle guns, such as the military, the police and prison officers. But it is probably a smaller proportion of the population than in the US. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/44 "2008-11-07T00:14:26Z")
> [@firstname](#): > > but you have to remember, there are only 3 people who have guns in Australia, cops, criminals and farmers. You do realise there are gun clubs out here that don’t require you to be any of the above right? and that people do actually join them for Target Shooting? or Hunting? [http://www.ssaa.org.au/](http://www.ssaa.org.au/) There are way more guns in Australia than you seem to realise. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/45 "2008-11-07T00:32:31Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Sorry, that wasn’t by design. But it does make the pitting fairly pointless - as has been pointed out, the kid found a bag of metal. Nothing more. > > So now I change it to a pitting against littering, wastefulness and the pointless destruction of perfectly useful tools. > > Carry on. Maybe the thread title could be changed to “False alarm! All bad gun stories still come out of the US!” ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/46 "2008-11-07T01:47:52Z")
Well i was using hyperbole, but average Joe in Australia wouldn’t have a gun. Yes I realize there are gun clubs and hunters etc, and there are possibly more guns in Australia than i realize but I do think people who are members of shooting clubs (which you are required to be to own a handgun) are in the extreme minority. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/47 "2008-11-07T01:51:28Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > You do realize that they are inanimate object built for the sole purpose of forcibly injecting large pieces of metal into animate objects, don’t you? > > But fuck it, if he would have killed himself with it, it would have been the parents fault. You gun-nuts sure cover your excuse bases well… > > :rolleyes: Fuck you and your god damned “gun nuts” bullshit. And fuck you and your god damned rolleyes widget as well. In fact, just basically fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/48 "2008-11-07T01:54:28Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If you find a gun lying around, though, isn’t it basic common-sense gun safety to treat it as if it were loaded? > > A de-miled gun would still look like a functional gun to someone who was not familiar with guns, right? Agreed, and the kids did the right thing going to tell a grown up. Their parents should be proud. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/49 "2008-11-07T02:00:52Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Do you have anything to contribute, other than fear mongering? He’s not fear mongering, he’s stupidity mongering. Or ignorance mongering. Or trolling. ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/50 "2008-11-07T02:22:20Z")
I return; with numbers; [http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tbp/tbp020/07\_characteristics.pdf](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tbp/tbp020/07_characteristics.pdf) (PDF - page 3) Number of registered firearms in Australia: 2,526,888 Number Of individual licenses (number of people with guns); 731 567 Population of Australia; ~21 million So (assuming my math is correct) about 12 guns for every 100 people. and roughly 3.5% of people are gun owners. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/51 "2008-11-07T22:02:27Z")
> [@firstname](#): > > I return; with numbers; [http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tbp/tbp020/07\_characteristics.pdf](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tbp/tbp020/07_characteristics.pdf) (PDF - page 3) > Number of registered firearms in Australia: 2,526,888 Is this like the number of registered guns in Canada? Only a small percentage of the guns that are supposed to be registered actually were? ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/52 "2008-11-09T04:20:42Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > So you’re saying that **firstname** is wrong? There are a goodly number of guns, and by extension, a goodly number of people around who are capable of handling them safely? Based on my personal experience, I support **firstname** ’s assessment of it. Only one person I know is in a gun club; other than that, I’m not aware of anyone (outside of police/armed forces) who owns or knows how to operate a gun. Gun ownership tends to occur in pockets - farming zones, in particular - but there’s very little evidence of gun ownership in the suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/53 "2008-11-09T04:40:33Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Is this like the number of registered guns in Canada? Only a small percentage of the guns that are supposed to be registered actually were? Probably not. The registration process wasn’t onerous, the penalties were significant, and there was also an amnesty on handing in guns after the ruling was implemented. Also, some owners could receive government compensation for the value of the guns. I get kind of annoyed when people get hung up on how Poor Little Australians don’t get to play with guns. For the record, ‘homicide’ \*\*doesn’t \*\*mean ‘gun-related death’. We’re just as capable of stabbing someone to death, poisoning them, or running them over with a vehicle as anyone else is, and I resent the implication that we need guns to kill people off! 😉 For anyone who’s interested, the rate of homicide in Australia was “at its highest in 1999 at 2.0 per 100,000. By 2004 it had dropped to 1.5 and has remained stable since then.” \*See: \*[Australian Institute of Criminology](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2007/01_recorded_crime.html). Those stats don’t include 2008, because the data for the year obviously isn’t in yet. Back on licensing… I may be wrong, but I believe that ‘registered firearm’ also includes those with a ‘collectors license’. In these cases, the person is only allowed to collect guns which were manufactured prior to 1920 and have been disabled to prohibit their firing. (There’s also some kind of requirement for regular inspection of the guns and their storage, but I’m not sure on the details of that.) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/54 "2008-11-09T04:46:28Z")
If I had found that stuff I wouldn’t have said a word to my parents. Maybe someone would have noticed though, that me and my friends would have been running around the block plaining Army with real guns. That would have been the funnest thing ever. I found a real bullet in the sidewalk a couple of doors up from my house as a kid. I took it apart with a pliers and burned the powder. I was disappointed with the flash. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/55 "2008-11-09T06:02:33Z")
> [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](#): > > Probably not. The registration process wasn’t onerous, the penalties were significant, and there was also an amnesty on handing in guns after the ruling was implemented. Also, some owners could receive government compensation for the value of the guns. > For anyone who’s interested, the rate of homicide in Australia was “at its highest in 1999 at 2.0 per 100,000. By 2004 it had dropped to 1.5 and has remained stable since then.” \*See: \*[Australian Institute of Criminology](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2007/01_recorded_crime.html). Those stats don’t include 2008, because the data for the year obviously isn’t in yet. > ) When did the Gun registration and bans kick in? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/56 "2008-11-09T12:19:08Z")
> [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](#): > > (There’s also some kind of requirement for regular inspection of the guns and their storage, but I’m not sure on the details of that.) Back when I had a license in Victoria, Australia (more than 10 years ago), if you legally owned a gun then the local police had you on a database and could stop by your house at any time of the day or night and inspect the firearm. Mainly they’d check that the firearm was in a locked metal case, and was separated from any ammunition (which should be in it’s own locked case). ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/57 "2008-11-09T21:18:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If I had found that stuff I wouldn’t have said a word to my parents. Maybe someone would have noticed though, that me and my friends would have been running around the block plaining Army with real guns. That would have been the funnest thing ever. > [@dropzone](#): > > You lost me right there. You mean he didn’t call all his friends so they could bring them back to their clubhouse, treehouse, or basement of the friend whose divorced mom drinks too much, then play with them in secret and try to steal some ammo from dad’s sock drawer? > > I really don’t understand kids these days. No initiative. March lockstep with what their parents and teachers tell them to do. And if it had been a real, functioning gun (and most kids probably couldn’t safely determine the difference), you could have accidentally shot yourself or someone else. It happens a few hundred times a year in the US. It would be incredibly, insanely stupid for any parent to encourage their kid to play with guns. (Teaching them how to use guns responsibly while under adult supervision would be a very different situation, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/58 "2008-11-10T01:24:09Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > … It would be incredibly, insanely stupid for any parent to encourage their kid to play with guns. (Teaching them how to use guns responsibly while under adult supervision would be a very different situation, of course.) Play… use… whatever. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/59 "2008-11-10T01:47:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When did the Gun registration and bans kick in? The ban on all semi-automatic rifles and and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns was introduced after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230/60 "2008-11-11T20:37:59Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > It would be incredibly, insanely stupid for any parent to encourage their kid to play with guns. Who said we had parental encouragement? If you read and understood our posts you would realize that NOT letting our parents find out was the primary goal. Or secondary, after playing with the guns. I mean, jeeze, what sorta goody two-shoes WERE you? (shaking my head) Girls. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-in-case-you-thought-all-the-bad-gun-stories-came-out-of-the-us/471230.md?page=2)