# Just like reality? \[Race, crime, and home security commercials\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592 "2009-02-12T20:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/121 "2009-02-16T23:43:38Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So what? Sew buttons … “So what”? What kind of response is that in GD? > [@](#): > > I’m not sure, but in any event, those are not the only two options. Seems to me you are presenting a [false dilemma](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma) Seems to me you are not presenting any other options. 1. Perpetuate stereotypes 2. Avoid perpetuating stereotypes 3. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ _[fill in blank]_ ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/122 "2009-02-16T23:55:17Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t need luck, since I’m reporting only what I see on my TV: Dude, your examples are all children programs. I was kinda hoping you’d…I dunno…come up with some shows that are targeted to an adult audience. If you can’t do that, it suggests you lack the breadth of knowledge required to intelligently talk about this issue, let alone proclaim that there’s anti-white bias in the media. That aside, even I know that there’s little difference between Raven and Lucille Ball’s character, and I’ve seen less than half of a whole episode. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/123 "2009-02-17T00:18:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Dude, your examples are all children programs. I was kinda hoping you’d…I dunno…come up with some shows that are targeted to an adult audience. Funny that you didn’t mention this important qualification until AFTER I backed up my claim with examples. :rolleyes: At this point, the burden is on you to come up with evidence that children’s programming is different in its political correctness from adult programming. Otherwise, you are just drawing a distinction without any real significance. > [@](#): > > That aside, even I know that there’s little difference between Raven and Lucille Ball’s character, and I’ve seen less than half of a whole episode. Who is smarter – Raven or Chelsea? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/124 "2009-02-17T00:23:03Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Sew buttons … > > “So what”? What kind of response is that in GD? An appropriate one, given your comment. In other words, your comment does not appear to undermine or contradict my position in any way. > [@](#): > > Seems to me you are not presenting any other options. > > 1. Perpetuate stereotypes > > 2. Avoid perpetuating stereotypes > > 3. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ _[fill in blank]_ 1. Avoid perpetuating stereotypes by treating people as individuals. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/125 "2009-02-17T00:44:54Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I honestly can’t remember either of them showing particular brains over the other. :shrug: Raven is clearly smarter than Chelsea. Here’s a video I found on youtube: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pPCRpI8t8wQ/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/pPCRpI8t8wQ?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque For example, at 0:38 where Chelsea asks Raven to read her mind. Chelsea does and hears crickets chirping. Or at 1:22 where she is with Raven and another friend. Raven says something like “Hey, we’re like the 3 musketeers.” The second person says “We’re like the 3 Amigos.” Chelsea says “we’re the 3 blind mice.” Or at 4:10, where Raven says to Chelsea “Girl, do not play dumb with me.” Chelsea’s response “I’m not playing!” Basically there are lots of jokes where the joke is that Chelsea is stupid. Even when she says something intelligent, the joke is that a stupid person is saying something smart. Ok, now imagine if they made a show like that where the races were reversed, i.e. the black person is the constant stupid foil/butt of jokes for a white person. I have a hard time believing that such a comedy could or would be made in today’s climate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/126 "2009-02-17T00:49:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wouldn’t expect a white character to put down George anymore than I would expect a black character to put down Archie. Lionel Jefferson did it all the time. Remember the “shove yours” bit? Plus the Sammy Davis Jr. kiss, etc. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/127 "2009-02-17T00:55:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > At this point, the burden is on you to come up with evidence that children’s programming is different in its political correctness from adult programming. My problem with your examples has nothing to do with your thesis, and all to do with your credibility. As if it’s not enough that you first erroneously touted a character from a show that went extinct 30 years ago as an example of the black-person-good-white-person-bad bias that plagues society today, you then go on to claim four kid’s shows as proof of this media conspiracy. Problem is, at least one of those shows (_Raven_) fails to pass muster and another doesn’t even have black characters in it. > [@](#): > > Who is smarter – Raven or Chelsea? I don’t know because I’m not a fan and because this question is like asking who was dumb and who was dumber in _Dumb and Dumber_. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/128 "2009-02-17T01:00:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > My problem with your examples has nothing to do with your thesis, and all to do with your credibility. That’s nonsense for reasons stated earlier. > [@](#): > > As if it’s not enough that you first erroneously touted a character from a show that went extinct 30 years ago as an example of the black-person-good-white-person-bad bias that plagues society today That’s also incorrect for reasons stated earlier. > [@](#): > > , you then go on to claim four kid’s shows as proof of this media conspiracy. Please don’t strawman me. I never claimed that there was a conspiracy. > [@](#): > > Problem is, at least one of those shows (_Raven_) fails to pass muster That’s completely false. See, among other things, my post which links to youtube. > [@](#): > > another doesn’t even have black characters in it. So what? My claim was not just about blacks. > [@](#): > > I don’t know because I’m not a fan In that case, it’s a little odd for you to claim that Raven “fails to pass muster.” So much for your credibility. > [@](#): > > and because this question is like asking who was dumb and who was dumber in _Dumb and Dumber_. No it’s not, as you would know if you had seen the show. Or even watched the clip I linked to. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/129 "2009-02-17T01:10:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > For me it would be fairness. I’m a guy, and I use cleaning products. I’m sure there are lots of guys who have tons of cleaning products and are into clean, but are sick of seeing commercials where we are idiots who would forget to breath if the woman standing there complacently rolling her eyes and explaining in baby-talk what we need to do weren’t there. > > A: Women apparently need men to be denigrated for a product to appeal to them, > > B: Men apparently have no interest in cleaning products, and are too stupid to be left unsupervised by a woman. > > Hey advertisers, I’m a guy. You respect me, I’m way more likely to buy your new floor cleaner. Twice my response to this post has been eaten. I promise I will not buy cleaning product if the commercials portray men as blithering idiots when it comes to cleaning, if you promise not to buy commercials for cleaning products that women dance with, or that send women flower to lure them back. I will toss in not patronizing Hardee’s for free. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/130 "2009-02-17T01:14:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > An appropriate one, given your comment. In other words, your comment does not appear to undermine or contradict my position in any way. a. that is wrong b. you should have made that response that the first time > [@](#): > > 1. Avoid perpetuating stereotypes by treating people as individuals. On a tv commercial or sitcom? Sorry, if I am going to redefine the universe, I’ll start with something more important. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/131 "2009-02-17T01:19:09Z")
> [@j666](#): > > a. that is wrong Lol. No it isn’t. > [@](#): > > b. you should have made that response that the first time I don’t see why. “So what?” is reasonably clear. > [@](#): > > On a tv commercial or sitcom? > > Sorry, if I am going to redefine the universe, I’ll start with something more important. That may be your preference, but it doesn’t change the fact that you, in essence, presented me with a false dilemma. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/132 "2009-02-17T01:23:27Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Twice my response to this post has been eaten. > > I promise I will not buy cleaning product if the commercials portray men as blithering idiots when it comes to cleaning, if you promise not to buy commercials for cleaning products that women dance with, or that send women flower to lure them back. The thing is, if a woman is dancing around with her feather duster having an orgasm over the latest lemon fresh scent, that’s her gig. There isn’t a man there saying “stupid woman.” There will be a woman instructing a man on how not to be a stupid man and he really needs to get familiar with that lemon fresh duster she _obviously_ already uses, stupid man. I can’t imagine a series of computer commercials where the men continually explain to the stupid women what computers they need. Wow, what a fiasco that would be. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/133 "2009-02-17T01:44:57Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The thing is, if a woman is dancing around with her feather duster having an orgasm over the latest lemon fresh scent, that’s her gig. There isn’t a man there saying “stupid woman.” > > There will be a woman instructing a man on how not to be a stupid man and he really needs to get familiar with that lemon fresh duster she _obviously_ already uses, stupid man. > > I can’t imagine a series of computer commercials where the men continually explain to the stupid women what computers they need. Wow, what a fiasco that would be. Look, I’ve already promised not to support the ‘men are too stupid to clean’ theme; don’t be hostile with me. The thing is, if a woman is dancing around with her feather duster having an orgasm over the latest lemon fresh scent, that is NOT her gig. That is not the gig of any woman ever born on this planet. That is just dumb and insulting (kind of like those men poking confusedly at the ground beef). And every man (and woman) who sees the commercial is thinking ‘stupid woman’. So, why do those commercial keep airing? For the same reason beer commercials show dumb schlubby guys thinking the cheap beer in a can will get them a hot babe … … that is, I really don’t know. (I tend to buy any unscented off-brand I can find …) (… that is cleaning product, not beer) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/134 "2009-02-17T02:01:08Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Look, I’ve already promised not to support the ‘men are too stupid to clean’ theme; don’t be hostile with me. I’m not being hostile. Please don’t think I am. > [@](#): > > The thing is, if a woman is dancing around with her feather duster having an orgasm over the latest lemon fresh scent, that is NOT her gig. > > That is not the gig of any woman ever born on this planet. > > That is just dumb and insulting (kind of like those men poking confusedly at the ground beef). And every man (and woman) who sees the commercial is thinking ‘stupid woman’. > > So, why do those commercial keep airing? For the same reason beer commercials show dumb schlubby guys thinking the cheap beer in a can will get them a hot babe … > > … that is, I really don’t know. > > (I tend to buy any unscented off-brand I can find …) > (… that is cleaning product, not beer) The thing is, if you want to sell something to a man, straight or gay, make him think sex. If I buy/use this product I’ll get sex. The hot person in the commercial tells me so. If you want to sell to a woman, make a man look stupid. Frankly, I don’t think most men care if they are portrayed as being driven by the opportunity of sexual attraction. I wonder why we feel women need to be driven by denigrating men. What up with that? Of course, I know men and women in real life and we all think commercials are kinda dumb, but what is up with advertising and what they think appeals to men and women? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/135 "2009-02-17T03:23:36Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > And when exactly is it cause for outrage? What if the folks on the short end of the stick are women or non-whites? Then is it cause for outrage? You are strawmanning me and I demand an apology. Offhand I can’t think of a commercial that’s worth getting outraged over. It’s absurd, and so is being offended by ‘dumb guy’ stereotypes in commercials and sitcoms. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/136 "2009-02-17T03:51:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > **Handy Manny** : I believe there are no black characters on this show. The one white male, Mr. Lopart, is constantly getting himself into trouble with his arrogant attitude. The hero of the show is Manuel Garcia. Sure there’s a black character; the high school sports coach. Who would ever think to link black people to sports, huh? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/137 "2009-02-17T04:04:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You are strawmanning me and I demand an apology. Show me where I did, and of course I will apologize. > [@](#): > > Offhand I can’t think of a commercial that’s worth getting outraged over. Are you referring to commercials you have actually seen? Or hypothetical commercials which might be created? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/138 "2009-02-17T04:06:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I rather suspect it’s something about a supposed conspiracy against the white man to keep him down. But I’m sure we all knew that from the start. I was going to askl why he thinks white burglars are improbable but you hit it on the head. FTR when my house was robbed while I was away it was by a white guy…and I’m black. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/139 "2009-02-17T04:14:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Show me where I did, and of course I will apologize. Your assumptions about my position were based on nothing. > [@](#): > > Are you referring to commercials you have actually seen? Or hypothetical commercials which might be created? Hypothetically one can certainly imagine an outrageous commercial. Among the real ads I’ve actually seen, I can’t think of one that rises to that level. **levdrakon** : while “dumb guy” ads are lazy and stupid writing… who do you think is creating them? Women don’t have any “need” to see those ads. The most you can reasonably say is that women don’t have a big problem with the ads. I think the “dumb guy” stereotype is so common that it usually gets tuned out. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592/140 "2009-02-17T04:19:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your assumptions about my position were based on nothing. Please quote me where I misrepresented your position. Thank you. > [@](#): > > Hypothetically one can certainly imagine an outrageous commercial. Ok, so again my question: When exactly is there cause for outrage? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-like-reality-race-crime-and-home-security-commercials/485592.md?page=8)