Could you give two examples, please. One example of “good” profiling, and one of “bad” profiling.
Ok, so you’ve offered an explanation for the taboo I have described. Still, I don’t think you have contradicted or undermined my position.
That’s fair enough, but I’m left curious about something. Your comments in this thread have seemed to me to be critical of the taboo you mentioned. Was I wrong to think you are critical of it? If I wasn’t wrong, then what is the basis of your criticism?
-FrL-
Sure, and I’ll even give you good and bad examples of racial profiling.
Profiling potential employees by race is bad.
Profiling potential dates by race is (if not exactly good then) perfectly acceptable.
-FrL-
That’s not profiling, that’s discrimination. I agree that there is both good and bad discrimination.
For one thing, I think it’s rather mean-spirited that whites, men, and white men tend to bear the brunt of negative portrayals. For another, I think that political correctness in general is a destructive force in western culture.
You don’t think it’s possible to profile potential employees or dates by race?
I’m not sure how to argue against that.
If profiling is not designed specifically for use in some discriminatory practice or other, I’m not sure what use anyone would think profiling has for any situation at all.
In both the cases I mentioned, the profiling is sure to lead to discrimination (in one case bad, the other good) but what enables the discrimination, in my examples, is a prior act of profiling.
What are you calling “profiling”? To my knowledge, profiling is forming presumptions concerning behavior based on class membership. Is that not what it is?
-FrL-
And some non-whites and non-men think they should take their fair share, and have a lot of catching up to do.
Do you prefer perpetuating race and gender based stereotypes to political correctness?
I find it more destructive to portray women as obsessed with cleaning products and diamonds.
What phenomenon is that? This is what you posited on pg 1.
Let’s take movies. Off the top of my head, I can think of plenty that deviate from this phenomenon of which you speak. Who was the buffoon in The Fifth Element? Who was the idiot in 16 Blocks? In Charlie’s Angels II, what kind of character did Bernie Mac play? What roles can Martin Lawrence always be called upon to take?
Good luck on finding any TV show that supports your argument. There hasn’t been enough popular multi-racial television programming that would allow you take one or two and make any global statements about them.
So let’s see. If black people are portrayed as successful and clean-living, it’s not right because it’s not “real”. But when white men are portrayed as buffoons, it’s not right because…? Seems to me the image of the buffoonish white man has as much basis in reality as the sassy black single mother. Which is to say, a little bit, in a cartoonish way, because it’s on TV.
And as Ian Shoales once said, a nation that can’t tell the difference between TV screens and real life deserves everything that happens to it.
For me it would be fairness. I’m a guy, and I use cleaning products. I’m sure there are lots of guys who have tons of cleaning products and are into clean, but are sick of seeing commercials where we are idiots who would forget to breath if the woman standing there complacently rolling her eyes and explaining in baby-talk what we need to do weren’t there.
A: Women apparently need men to be denigrated for a product to appeal to them,
B: Men apparently have no interest in cleaning products, and are too stupid to be left unsupervised by a woman.
Hey advertisers, I’m a guy. You respect me, I’m way more likely to buy your new floor cleaner.
I have nothing to add to this thread, except to say that Tom definitely speaks up to George. Loudly and often.
So what?
I’m not sure, but in any event, those are not the only two options. Seems to me you are presenting a false dilemma
Speaking as another cleaning kind of guy, I have never thought to give a damn about that at all. I’m way more concerned about why it is effective to sell cleaning products to women that way. Do they feel so marginalized and condescended to by men that they feel validated when one of the few areas in which they are allowed to be expert is enforced by male stupidity? Is this rigid division of ability a way of underscoring the importance of gendered rolls? Is a man who is so far away from (common, feminine) tasks like cleaning that he can’t begin to grasp how to implement them more like a fool or a prince? I’m reminded of Eddie Izzard’s joke about Prince Charles meeting commoners: “Oh, you’re a plumber? What on Earth is that?”
I don’t need luck, since I’m reporting only what I see on my TV:
Cory in the House: Cory’s father (black male) is a succesful chef who is recruited to be the head chef at the Whitehouse. The two dufuses (dufi?) on the show are the President (white male) and Newt Livingston III (white male).
Suite Life of Zack and Cody: Everyone on the show is pretty goofy, but the black male (Mr. Moseby) is intelligent, responsible, and the manager of a hotel. The two biggest dufuses on the show are London (asian female) and Arwin (white male). (Interesting that somebody chose an asian female for the role of idiot. Did I mention that she is also super-rich?)
That’s So Raven. Raven, the main character (black female) is an average student but looks positively brilliant compared to her idiot friend Chelsea Daniels (white female). Raven’s father (black male) runs a restaurant (same dad as with Cory in the House); Raven’s mother (black female) is a law student.
Handy Manny: I believe there are no black characters on this show. The one white male, Mr. Lopart, is constantly getting himself into trouble with his arrogant attitude. The hero of the show is Manuel Garcia.
I haven’t seen any of the other shows you mention, but pretty much every character in That’s So Raven is a complete and utter idiot.
Comon, who is smarter – Raven or Chelsea?
If all you’re watching is children’s television, you aren’t really in the position to judge anyone’s intelligence.
I am more familiar with the commercials that show women dancing with their dusters.
But if any product I do like portrays men as blithering helpless idiots when it comes to house work, I promise to complain to the manufacturers.
I honestly can’t remember either of them showing particular brains over the other.