# Just realized why the MLS annoys me - they don't trust their fans..... **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 25, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586 "2018-07-25T21:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/61 "2018-07-30T14:35:53Z")
It may be more apparent, but it’s definitely more awful. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/62 "2018-07-30T14:37:06Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I hang out with the East End Army and I-Beam Ultras, who support the Unions farm club, Bethlehem Steel FC and its the same thing—we try to lead the fans into chants to support the team, and a few times some of the players not suited up will actually sit with us or the on-field players will come over and shake our hands and thank us for our support and even take selfies with us after the game. Its a unique fan experience you will not see in the other sports, and definitely not fake or contrived. Tangentially, I’ve always thought Talen Energy Center looked like a really cool stadium. I wish that the rest of the Chester re-development happened as it was anticipated to before 2008. I am not a Supporters Section person myself, but I love what our Supporter Sections do in terms of the atmosphere in the league. And Sons of Ben (one of yours) is a great name. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/63 "2018-07-30T19:19:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Further into the realm of silly copycat-ism is ESPN’s listing of an MLS “table” instead of standings (which is used for every other sport). Sports Illustrated on the other hand goes with standings. Not only that, but they list each team’s standings as Wins, Draws, Losses, like every other country does, rather than putting the draws after the losses like they (and everybody else) does with the NFL (and NHL, back when it still had ties). MLS has never hid the fact that it is not targeting the average fan. When the league first started, the official time was kept on the scoreboard, the way it is in college, but the people watching were so used to having the time kept by the referee that they switched to that method. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/64 "2018-07-30T19:33:22Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > When the league first started, the official time was kept on the scoreboard, the way it is in college, but the people watching were so used to having the time kept by the referee that they switched to that method. Well they were mocked by soccer fans in America for that (and considering the US media and spectators have tended to do this annoying American exceptionalism “we can fix soccer” thing every 4 years during the World Cup, it was seen as akin to that). And average Americans really didn’t care for soccer that much (at least back in the 90s). So in order to appeal to those soccer fans in the States they made it conform the rest of the world. A lot of the fans of European or Mexican soccer tend to ask why are you trying to change what already works around the world and so when MLS tried courting them (because they couldn’t survive with trying to get non soccer fans interested) they changed somewhat. You still have Americanisms like All Star Matches that get roundly criticized by MLS fans every year, but still persist. And MLS has kept playoffs and refused calls for Promotion/Relegation, so really MLS is following more of a middle way than a European way. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/65 "2018-07-30T20:06:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yeah that team name is just awful. Every time I hear it or see it in print I want to correct it. So ironic that it’s the team from Stanford of all places. > > The shame to me is that the team used to be “Cardinals”, referencing the bird, until 1981 when they decided their mascot was a color. :rolleyes: Well, except that’s not quite accurate. While the teams were called the “Stanford Cardinals” from 1972 to 1981, that was intended to reference not the bird, but rather the color. It’s like calling Chelsea FC “the Blues”, or the Argentine national team the “Albicelestes”. Why the Stanford president decided in 1981 that the term should be singularized is anyone’s guess. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/66 "2018-07-30T20:10:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That said, I have to add that the soccer/football distinction is a hell of a lot more recent than people think, and 50 years ago it was quite common in England for soccer to be called, well, soccer. While the term “soccer” was indeed used in England, it has NEVER been the primary term for the sport, as indicated by the fact that the teams are part of the Football League, that they are governed by the Football Association, and by the fact that there are almost no clubs in England known as \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Soccer Club (as opposed to \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Football Club, or \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Association Football Club). “Soccer” is generally considered to be derived from “Assoc.”, used in discussing Association Football (as opposed to Rugby Football). ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/67 "2018-07-31T05:59:13Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Tangentially, I’ve always thought Talen Energy Center looked like a really cool stadium. I wish that the rest of the Chester re-development happened as it was anticipated to before 2008. I am not a Supporters Section person myself, but I love what our Supporter Sections do in terms of the atmosphere in the league. And Sons of Ben (one of yours) is a great name. Sadly, Pennsylvania taxpayers paid nearly $100 million for that stadium, and in turn the Union ownership have done little to invest in either the club or Chester. They haven’t even signed a commitment to say past 2020 which really irks me. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ScarletNinny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ScarletNinny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScarletNinny)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/68 "2018-07-31T06:31:54Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > If MLS ever put a team in New Jersey, I bet they’d call it Bayonne Munchen MLS has had a team in New Jersey since its inception. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/69 "2018-08-08T21:47:27Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > …As for the “fake” fans in Minnesota or Atlanta perhaps the greatest tradition of soccer is fan clubs. I remember Philadelphia was awarded a club partly based on the efforts of the Sons of Ben fan club; they were awarded the Riverside end of Talen Energy Stadium and lead the fans in chants and also meet with the team to review any fan-team issues. Hardly a “fake” or contrived way to get the fans into the game. I hang out with the East End Army and I-Beam Ultras, who support the Unions farm club, Bethlehem Steel FC and its the same thing—we try to lead the fans into chants to support the team, and a few times some of the players not suited up will actually sit with us or the on-field players will come over and shake our hands and thank us for our support and even take selfies with us after the game. Its a unique fan experience you will not see in the other sports, and definitely not fake or contrived. I think you’ve misunderstood my original post. I never said the _fans_ were fake or pretentious. Indeed, that was my point - seemed to me that MLS was trying to impose a culture on those fans, rather than letting them - or, rather, y’all - develop one of your own. My irritation was about the faux-European names and styles - _tables_ instead of _standings_, “Atlanta United _play_ here”, big flags and scarves. The fact that they play in _strips_ or _kit_, rather than _uniforms_. But whatever the fans come up with, or adopt - flags, fan clubs, chants and team songs, whatever - is perfectly fine. Hey, if y’all want to use scarves, I’ll think you’re idiots (to wear scarves in July, in Georgia), but your sport, your choice. You, and **ISiddiq** before you, have explained how the evocation of European leagues is a deliberate marketing choice that MLS fans like, and contributes to the league’s resurgent popularity. Still irritates me, though. But I’m not a fan, so my opinion means nothing. > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > …But English (American or British) tends to change with time. I routinely use the “English” construction when talking about soccer, and find that it tends to leak over to talks about other sports. I’ve heard that from others, too. So I’d predict that, in another 50 years or so, Americans will not sound much different talking about their sports teams than their English counterparts. Yep. I dislike the British construction, because it sounds weird to my American ears; but I can’t say it’s “wrong” in any way. And we very well may end up adopting it. No profit to railing about language change; as the Great Lexicographer said, > [@Samuel Johnson](#): > > …sounds are too volatile and subtile for legal restraints; to enchain syllables, and to lash the wind, are equally the undertakings of pride, unwilling to measure its desires by its strength. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/70 "2018-08-08T21:57:53Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Hey, if y’all want to use scarves, I’ll think you’re idiots (to wear scarves in July, in Georgia) Well we do play in a dome. Scarves are definitely one of the top sellers at the Team Store on gamedays though. People just buy them up. They offer different ones for different events - a St. Patrick’s Day scarf, 4th of July scarf, Pride Month scarf, etc, etc. and they sell extremely well. On one level, I wonder if it is to established a slightly different identity in the stands, because most people are wearing the home jersey (if you buy a t-shirt you are generally going to wear it around town, not in the stands) - having a new scarf allows you to look a bit different. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/71 "2018-08-08T22:24:50Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Scarves are definitely one of the top sellers at the Team Store on gamedays though. People just buy them up. They offer different ones for different events - a St. Patrick’s Day scarf, 4th of July scarf, Pride Month scarf, etc, etc. and they sell extremely well. I hope no-one sells match day scarves that are split 50/50 between the two teams. Those show up sometimes in the UK, mostly sold by unofficial vendors _just_ outside the stadium grounds, and clearly aimed at people who have been football fans for about five minutes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/72 "2018-08-09T02:19:56Z")
Hey, **ISiddiqui** - I realized I misspelled your username in my previous post. My apologies. I feel especially bad about it because,while you may not remember, we’ve met IRL, at a Dopefest. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/73 "2018-08-09T15:24:40Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Hey, **ISiddiqui** - I realized I misspelled your username in my previous post. My apologies. I feel especially bad about it because,while you may not remember, we’ve met IRL, at a Dopefest. I do remember! And no problem, I didn’t take it personally (and I’ve heard Siddiq is a character on the Walking Dead, so I can understand thinking it that way :D). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/74 "2018-08-09T15:26:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I hope no-one sells match day scarves that are split 50/50 between the two teams. Those show up sometimes in the UK, mostly sold by unofficial vendors _just_ outside the stadium grounds, and clearly aimed at people who have been football fans for about five minutes. 😃 Those are DEFINITELY sold and are OFFICIAL - they had some for the All Star match, half MLS half Juventus. And they had one for the first match (vs. RBNY) and then for the first match at Mercedes Benz Stadium (I forget who that was). And they get sold out quick. I don’t necessarily get it… but I guess having one for the first game is a cool memento. You buy it and it goes on the wall. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586/75 "2018-08-14T06:05:49Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I think you’ve misunderstood my original post. I never said the _fans_ were fake or pretentious. Indeed, that was my point - seemed to me that MLS was trying to impose a culture on those fans, rather than letting them - or, rather, y’all - develop one of your own. My irritation was about the faux-European names and styles - _tables_ instead of _standings_, “Atlanta United _play_ here”, big flags and scarves. The fact that they play in _strips_ or _kit_, rather than _uniforms_. > > But whatever the fans come up with, or adopt - flags, fan clubs, chants and team songs, whatever - is perfectly fine. Hey, if y’all want to use scarves, I’ll think you’re idiots (to wear scarves in July, in Georgia), but your sport, your choice. You, and **ISiddiq** before you, have explained how the evocation of European leagues is a deliberate marketing choice that MLS fans like, and contributes to the league’s resurgent popularity. > > Still irritates me, though. But I’m not a fan, so my opinion means nothing. Well we wish you would become a fan because the Euro traditions are fun! I’d submit even the most jaded soccer hater would walk away from a MLS supporters experience with at the very least a fun story to talk about. Attempts to “Americanize” soccer have failed, and many MLS fans even hate the concept of “playoffs”. The result BTW is a fan-team experience that none of the other four “major sports” can match. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-realized-why-the-mls-annoys-me-they-dont-trust-their-fans/818586.md?page=3)