# Just saw Magnolia....Um??...(Maybe some spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863 "2003-07-21T06:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Shana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shana)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/1 "2003-07-21T06:46:01Z")
Alright…This movie really had me in it’s grip. I was in complete and utter awe of the performances…Wow. Just…wow. My husband and I kept nodding at eachother in that “This movie is incredible isn’t it???” kind of way. And then…the frogs started falling. Am I missing some kind of stellar symbolism here? Am I just too much of a dorky, unimaginative loser to get this movie? Do I need to go to film school? When it finished I still thought it was a powerful, moving film, but the frogs just…well…they annoyed me! (I have to admit I’m not terribly drawn to frogs…but still.) What did you all think about it??? Pleeeassse tell me! I must know! Shana ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/2 "2003-07-21T06:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Am I missing some kind of stellar symbolism here? _Stellar_ symbolism? Sounds like you’re trying too hard to “get” a “meaning”. The point is: Random, unpredictable things happen. To everyone. That’s it. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Shana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Shana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shana)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/3 "2003-07-21T07:06:00Z")
Really? Hmm… Well, ok Spoofe. And I thank you for answering…but…why something so improbable like frogs? I mean, why would the film maker chooose something so outlandish? Anyway, the soundtrack is amazing…I’m going to go out and buy it tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![Shana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Shana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shana)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/4 "2003-07-21T07:32:31Z")
The frogs are still disturbing me…Was no one freaked out by the frogs? Am I the only one?? I thought the movie was about facing your demons…not running from the past, yourself…etc… Ok…I’m trying to accept that unpredictable things happen…but frogs?? bah! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/5 "2003-07-21T07:48:58Z")
Rain of frogs is a kind of ‘God’s judgement’ thing - they’re _all_ guilty of something, things are going to keep haunting them unless they straighten up and make an effort to reconcile/improve behaviours, forgive and so on. At least that’s my reading on it. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/6 "2003-07-21T09:37:25Z")
Oddly, I saw it as a kind of directorial divine intervention. The movie had established all of these characters, all of whom had developed a very defined humanity, all of whom the audience sympathized with, and right before the frogs, none of them could come to the right conclusions. They needed something, some improbable external force, to save them. To me it seemed as if the director wrote the script so that it all headed towards a point where a deus ex machina was necessary, in each and every story. The script was building towards an intersection, a place where all of the stories could be resolved by a single incredibly unlikely event. And the director, in his mercy, sent down a rain of frogs so that each story could come to its proper conclusion, or at least start heading that way. It was, to me, about the nature of free will in the presence of a benevolent deity. It was about the ultimately fictional nature of life. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/7 "2003-07-21T09:42:29Z")
It began and ended with an Urban Legend. ---
**Author:** ![PhillySteak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f6c823/32.png) [@PhillySteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillySteak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/8 "2003-07-21T09:46:38Z")
Hi Jjimm, I don’t think that the frogs thing is an Urban Legend, so I’m not sure that’s right. However, I have no clue what the frogs were about. Philly ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/9 "2003-07-21T10:22:46Z")
There are a number of references to Exodus 8:2 in the film. > [@](#): > > 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me. > > 2 And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs: > > 3 And the river shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come into thine house, and into thy bedchamber, and upon thy bed, and into the house of thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thine ovens, and into thy kneadingtroughs: [spoiler]The numbers 8 and 2 appear throughout the film: weather forecast: 82% chance of rain a gambler needs a 2 in blackjack but gets an 8 the coil of rope when the boy commits suicide the first temperature reading the poster in the TV show audience the movie poster at the bus stop on Magnolia Ave the placard on the hanged convicts Jim Kurring’s box number at the date hotline Sydney Barringer’s mother and father’s apartment number is 682 the forensic science convention starts at 8:20 Delmer Darion flips over a stack of cards to reveal the 8 through 2 of diamonds right after Jim Kurring sees Donnie Smith climbing up the building, you can see a flash of a sign on the side of the road that says “Exodus 8:2” (it’s visible again when the frogs fall and hit Kurring’s car) the number on the firefighter’s plane. in Marcy’s mugshots, her criminal record number is 82082082082 in the bar scene there is a chalkboard with two teams, the frog and the clouds - the score is 8 to 2 -spray painted on the cement as graffiti next to the boy. member of the game show crowd holds a placard with Exodus 8:2 written on it the kids were two days away from entering their eighth week as champions. [http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0175880[/spoiler]](http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0175880%5B/spoiler%5D) ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/10 "2003-07-21T10:34:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*It began and ended with an Urban Legend. \*\* Nope, [not](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a901207a.html) an urban legend. **Shana** , there was a Magnolia thread earlier this year, which you may wish to search for. It was bumped a couple weeks ago, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/11 "2003-07-21T10:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhillySteak \* > \*\*Hi Jjimm, > > I don’t think that the frogs thing is an Urban Legend, so I’m not sure that’s right. However, I have no clue what the frogs were about. > > Philly \*\* Hiya **PhillySteak** - according to the IMDB link given: > [@](#): > > Paul Thomas Anderson has said that he was unaware that the story of frogs falling from the sky is in the Bible (he took it from Charles Fort’s writing) (As in the Fortean Times). Maybe its UL qualities are debatable, but it’s the same sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/12 "2003-07-21T14:25:37Z")
I’ve always figured that the frogs were there because, well, something had to be. _Magnolia_ doesn’t follow the typical setup-conflict-resolution structure. It’s pretty much all buildup, and it makes you expect some climax that never really comes. (You can find this in the novels of David Foster Wallace, too.) But if the movie just stopped without a satisfying ending the audiences would be furious. The rain of frogs relieves the tension without solving anything. ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/13 "2003-07-21T18:17:18Z")
When my husband and I saw this movie in the theater, we had no idea what it was about - just that Tom Cruise played an asshole. We (or at least I) absolutely adored it, but when we left, I felt like my brain had turned to Jell-O. Gotta watch it again, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/14 "2003-07-21T18:34:49Z")
Footnote: Urban legends are not _necessarily_ untrue. The reason folklorists study urban legends has to do with why people feel compelled to repeat them to others, not the truth (or lack thereof) of the legend itself. Just because something is an urban legend doesn’t mean it can’t also true. The “guy solves unsolved math problem, believing it to be homework” legend is a good example: [http://www.snopes.com/college/homework/unsolvab.htm](http://www.snopes.com/college/homework/unsolvab.htm) We now return to our regularly scheduled movie discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Shana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Shana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shana)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/15 "2003-07-21T19:04:31Z")
Well…thank you so much everyone. I feel a lot better about the frogs now!! After the movie my husband and I were wondering if maybe the frogs were some kind of biblical scourge - or maybe they were supposed to signify God stepping in and shaking things up so that things could happen the way they should. Anyway, thanks again for your take on it…I think I’ll go email this to my husband! He just called me and told me that the frogs are torturing him. And no one in his office has seen Magnolia oddly enough! He’ll be very happy to read all of your explanations! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/16 "2003-07-21T19:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shana \* > Anyway, the soundtrack is amazing…I’m going to go out and buy it tomorrow! If you liked the soundtrack I would highly recommend checking out some of Aimee Mann’s CD’s, such as Lost in Space which you can preview at: [http://www.aimeemann.com/](http://www.aimeemann.com/) Here is what the director has to say about it: > [@](#): > > _This quote was taken from:_ [http://www.ptanderson.com/featurefilms/magnolia/secrets.htm](http://www.ptanderson.com/featurefilms/magnolia/secrets.htm) > I’d read about rains of frogs in the works of Charles Fort (His “Book of the Damned” is the genesis for the rain of frogs), who was a turn of the century writer who wrote mainly about odd phenomena. So I just started writing it in to the script. It wasn’t until after I got through with the writing that I began to discover what it might mean, which is this: you get to a point in your life, and shit is happening, and everything’s out of your control, and suddenly, a rain of frogs just makes sense. You’re staring at a doctor who is telling you something is wrong, and while we know what it is, we have no way of fixing it. And you just go: “So what you’re telling me, basically, is that it’s raining frogs from the sky.” I’m not someone who’s ever had a special fascination with UFO’s or supernatural phenomena or anything but I guess I just found myself at a point in my life where I was going through some shitty stuff, and I was ready for some sort of weird religious experience, or as close as I could get to one. So then I began to decipher things about frogs and history things like this notion that as far back as the Romans, people have been able to judge the health of a society by the health of its frogs: the health of a frog, the vibe of a frog, the texture of the frog, its looks, how much wetness is on it, everything. The frogs are a barometer for who we are as a people. We’re polluting ourselves, we’re killing ourselves, and the frogs are telling us so, because they’re all getting sick and deformed. Personally, I always thought that the Frogs somehow managed to fit the movie; utterly inexplicable ending just seems right for Magnolia. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/17 "2003-07-21T20:51:26Z")
The whole damn thing was way over-rated in my book, but what the hell do I know? * * * Honestly, what the hell does he know? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/18 "2003-07-21T21:16:27Z")
Thanks, **Wumpus**. That is what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/19 "2003-07-21T21:49:07Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=617661#post617661Please](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=617661#post617661Please) see my post here for my own theory about the film. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863/20 "2003-07-21T21:50:12Z")
[Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=617661#post617661). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-saw-magnolia-um-maybe-some-spoilers/189863.md?page=2)