# Just split the country **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108 "2021-10-24T18:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/142 "2021-10-26T16:15:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There is no value in hyperbole, end of discussion. Is there value in determining whether a bright line between description and hyperbole exists, and if so, where it lies? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/143 "2021-10-26T18:42:27Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The problem isn’t that they’re stupid, it’s more that they’ve been convinced over _decades_ that their way of life is being stolen, that they’re the only “true” Americans, that the Democrats are doing the stealing, and so on. It’s an unholy brew of identity politics aimed at white working and middle class people, appeals to patriotism, demonization of the political opposition, and so on. I don’t care if they’re literally stupid. I also don’t care about the decades they’ve been played for suckers. They currently display the same worldview and willingness to accept new ideas as young children or adults with exceptionally low IQs, so for all intents and purposes they’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/144 "2021-10-26T18:55:18Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I don’t care if they’re literally stupid. I also don’t care about the decades they’ve been played for suckers. They currently display the same worldview and willingness to accept new ideas as young children or adults with exceptionally low IQs, so for all intents and purposes they’re stupid. Okay. I’m not sure how that is helpful, unless you are arguing for a tyranny of the “enlightened”, but regardless, carving up the country based upon political identity is only a solution to the question of “How best to start a civil war?” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/145 "2021-10-26T19:01:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m not sure how that is helpful. It’s not. I’m just so tired of knowing that nearly half the voters in this country are so dense, so deluded and so far gone that there’s no chance we’ll return to any semblance of sane political progress in my lifetime, and that if they get their way most of my son’s life will be lived in a declining kleptocracy. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/146 "2021-10-26T20:18:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Litigation wouldn’t even have occurred, though, because Pence would have been removed from the proceedings and Grassley would have finished the certification without him. Maybe, but this really flies in the face common sense, given the cowardice we’ve seen from Senate Republicans in the face of Trump and his base. I find it just as likely that Pence pulls the stunt, and everyone else falls in line, as Republicans have done for most of Trumpworld’s worst outrages. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The Supreme Court can issue emergency orders very rapidly. In the crazy scenario where Pence got a majority of the Senate to let him subvert the electoral counts act and attempt to throw the election to a House Contingent election, I have a strong belief the Supreme Court would issue an emergency injunction saying such an election violates the Electoral Counts Act and should not occur. You think the Supreme Court would do that? I’m looking at a court that was 33% appointed by Trump, who declined to defend settled judicial precedent in Texas S.B. 8, a blatantly unconstitutional violation of rights and a direct attack on established SCOTUS precedent. I think it’s incredibly naive to think such a compromised, partisan court would impartially step in as you seem to think. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There is no value in hyperbole, end of discussion. There’s no value in callow dismissal of evidence in front of your face. I mean, except for self-delusion. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/147 "2021-10-26T21:20:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You think the Supreme Court would do that? I’m looking at a court that was 33% appointed by Trump, who declined to defend settled judicial precedent in Texas S.B. 8, a blatantly unconstitutional violation of rights and a direct attack on established SCOTUS precedent. I think it’s incredibly naive to think such a compromised, partisan court would impartially step in as you seem to think. Huh? [Texas SB 8 has just NOW, as in yesterday, made it on the docket for the Supreme Court](https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/10/supreme-speed-the-court-puts-abortion-on-the-rocket-docket/). They can’t rule on something without that case percolating up through the appellate courts and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/148 "2021-10-26T21:31:09Z")
And actually that case still isn’t quite SB8 being on the docket, it’s a full hearing about whether the Justice Department has standing to intervene; there’s a case involving an actual OBGYN who has admitted he has performed a banned abortion under SB8, that is in the very earliest stages of litigation, it has a long way to go before it is ever at the Supreme Court level (which is why most attention is on the current Justice Department lawsuit.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/149 "2021-10-26T22:02:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Huh? [Texas SB 8 has just NOW, as in yesterday, made it on the docket for the Supreme Court](https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/10/supreme-speed-the-court-puts-abortion-on-the-rocket-docket/). > > They can’t rule on something without that case percolating up through the appellate courts and so on. They certainly can, and did. They were petitioned to temporarily block the law from taking effect pending a full review. On midnight September 4th they announced that they weren’t going to do so, effectively nullifying Roe v. Wade in Texas. A court that’s willing to stomp on its own precedents, in a cowardly midnight ruling that declines to take any action… it’s just not credible that this court will stand up decisively for democracy. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > And actually that case still isn’t quite SB8 being on the docket, it’s a full hearing about whether the Justice Department has standing to intervene; there’s a case involving an actual OBGYN who has admitted he has performed a banned abortion under SB8, that is in the very earliest stages of litigation, it has a long way to go before it is ever at the Supreme Court level (which is why most attention is on the current Justice Department lawsuit.) Exactly the point. The process is long and convoluted. SCOTUS knows this, and chose to let this unconstitutional law stand anyhow. You can’t tell me with a straight face that this court can be relied upon for a vigorous and timely defense of constitutional rights. They’ll slow-roll it to get the outcome desired by the party that got them appointed, just as they’re doing with SB8. Again, SCOTUS _did_ have a choice to act expeditiously on SB8, and expressly chose not to do so. The facts aren’t in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/150 "2021-10-26T23:41:00Z")
> [@bump](#): > > They can’t rule on something without that case percolating up through the appellate courts and so on. For reasons already given, I doubt that. But what I am really sure of is that if we split, the Supreme Court in D.C. will have no ability whatsoever to stop something in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/151 "2021-10-27T01:17:32Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Do you believe a radical left or anarchist terrorist organisation is or could be possible in the USA? A group that would not bomb federal buildings, like Oklahoma 1995, but target individuals for murder and/or kidnapping like the RAF did in Germany or the Brigate Rosse in Italy (veeery simplified here, I hope the basic idea is clear) or policemen/army like the ETA did in Spain (they not only did this, of course), or some kind of _action directe_ like the anarchists over 100 years ago? I believe it’s possible, yes. I’m not exactly worried about the left right now because they’re not the ones undermining democratic norms right now. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/152 "2021-10-27T09:20:43Z")
Radical left-wing groups certainly do exist and commit terrorist attacks in America. Most of these have an environmental/animal rights focus (that’s not an excuse; I’m just pointing out that they’re not looking to overthrow the government) but there are also a small number of more politically-motivated left-wing groups. But decades of FBI data still shows that they are currently vastly overshadowed by the number of radical right-wing and white nationalist terrorist groups, cells and individuals planning or committing attacks in America. And I suspect this is because the right-wing media and politicians are deliberately fomenting violent insurgency. ---
**Author:** ![JoePockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@JoePockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoePockets)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/153 "2021-10-27T09:52:33Z")
Have to disagree. The country is browning faster than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/154 "2021-10-27T10:38:28Z")
That’s just global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/155 "2021-10-27T13:07:09Z")
> [@JoePockets](#): > > The country is browning faster than you think. Again, it’s not about the color of the people – it’s about the structure of the system. If the proportion of POC grows in states and districts that are already blue, it won’t make any difference in the overall “color” of our governments. We’ll only see a significant impact if the “browning” extends to states and districts that are mostly white today. Any evidence that’s happening? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/156 "2021-10-27T13:33:48Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > We’ll only see a significant impact if the “browning” extends to states and districts that are mostly white today. Any evidence that’s happening? Well, with the current Texas gerrymandering the opposite is happening. More POC in the population, less districts with majority POC. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/157 "2021-10-27T13:54:05Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Well, with the current Texas gerrymandering the opposite is happening. More POC in the population, less districts with majority POC. Exactly. I am curious to learn if formerly purplish states such as Iowa do have growing POC populations. Districts within a state might be gerrymandered, but state borders don’t change, so a “browner” Iowa might eventually elect more Dem senators and presidential electors. (Assuming, of course, that “brown” = “blue.” I know that’s not a given.) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/158 "2021-10-27T15:40:31Z")
Can’t we just tell the confederate states that we’ve changed our minds? And toss in West Virginia as a gesture of goodwill? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/159 "2021-10-27T16:07:30Z")
But we’re keeping Real Virginia this time. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/160 "2021-10-27T17:33:35Z")
Absolutely. Also, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska and the Dakotas will be merged into a single state. Windam. Population roughly 7 million. Two US senators is plenty. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108/161 "2021-10-27T17:59:42Z")
What I totally don’t get about the argument that red states contain pockets of blue which contain pockets of red etc. (and vice-versa) so it’s not FAAAAAIR to make people live in places that aren’t nice to them…isn’t that the exact situation we’re seeking to overhaul? Did anyone seeking a two-state solution, so to speak, ever suggest that even with expedited migration you could ever have 100% of any country completely satisfied with the country they live in? Or even 80%? It’s a given that you’re going to have unhappy people trapped in a hostile environment the more geographic divisions you create. DUH? But the really unhappy ones can move to a friendlier environment, and the ones who don’t want to move, well, I guess they’re not so unhappy. You don’t suppose everyone living in the Union from 1861-1865 was opposed to slavery, do you? But maybe we would have been better off to split into two countries instead of fighting a bloody war that is in some very real senses still going on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-split-the-country/953108.md?page=9)