# Just Stop Oil protesters
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [August 26, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406 "2022-08-26T19:19:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/21 "2022-10-16T19:22:30Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> Do we only support protesters who “get it right” from the get-go by having a vision, goals, and tactics that we entirely approve of and that don’t disturb us?
I’m pretty forgiving. But it’s not too much to ask “what are you trying to accomplish and how will this help?”
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/22 "2022-10-16T19:48:49Z")
Trying to protest excessive use of fossil fuels by blockading gas stations makes sense. It’s maybe not the wisest move, since it’s likely to turn people against your cause, but it makes sense.
Trying to protest excessive use of fossil fuels by throwing soup at a painting doesn’t make sense. It’s just trolling.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/23 "2022-10-16T20:03:57Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> Or should we think about protest as process with a learning curve for all involved?
I think about protests as marketing for your position. The commercial where they throw soup at a Van Gogh didn’t do it for me.
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### Author:  [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/24 "2022-10-16T21:52:39Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> Do we only support protesters who “get it right” from the get-go…
I do. Supporting wishy-washy campaigns is how goals go awry and innocent people get hurt. How hard is it to delineate your goals and set forth a reasonable plan that addresses those goals?
Throwing soup at paintings to address oil concerns is idiotic and will turn people against you and your cause. If you do anything other than stand in front of the Exxon Mobil building with a sign in your hand, then yes, I expect you to have a cohesive cause-and-effect demonstration.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [October 16, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/25 "2022-10-16T23:13:34Z")
If only everyone were calm and rational and not given to excess, surely the millennium would be upon us. I agree that some actions are unhelpful and that coherent connections between ends and means are important, but also recall Saul Alinsky’s observation that those who say I agree with your ends but not your means “always wind up on their ens without any means,” and often do not in agree with the ends. To expect hurt, angry, desperate people to be calm and patient and abiding to someone else’s sense of propriety is asking a lot from people who may be just learning the skills of protest and action. Would they benefit from training of the sort Training for Change gives? Link here: [In times of rapid change, victory comes to those who train for it | Waging Nonviolence](https://wagingnonviolence.org/2020/06/in-times-of-rapid-change-victory-comes-to-those-who-train-for-it/) Absolutely. But I’d rather support even inchoate resistance than tell them to stay home: it’s a process.
Ironically enough, when the punk band DOA proclaimed “Theory minus action equals nothing,” my response was always “action minus theory means you do something stupid.” Somewhere in the middle is a better place.
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### Author:  [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/26 "2022-10-17T02:18:31Z")
First, I never said they should stay home and, second, these people are stretching the definition of “waging non-violence”.
> **[Just Stop Oil protesters spray Aston Martin showroom in London's Park Lane...](https://news.sky.com/story/just-stop-oil-protesters-spray-aston-martin-showroom-in-londons-park-lane-with-orange-paint-12722003)**
>
> Demonstrators from the Just Stop Oil environmental group also glued themselves to the road in Park Lane on Sunday. The latest protest comes after two women threw tomato soup over Van Gogh's Sunflowers masterpiece - estimated to be worth £72.5 million...
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/27 "2022-10-17T03:13:39Z")
> [@mbh](#):
>
> What legal liability would the museum face if they just left them sitting there, glued to the wall, for a couple of days?
That might be tricky for the ones at the museum, since it closes at night. The ones at the petrol station or the Aston Martin dealership are outside. Leave them glued to a wall for a little while. They’ll have to relieve themselves eventually. Maybe it’ll even rain.
I do wonder what their plan is. Do they have some solvent with them, or are they counting on the police to safely extract them?
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/28 "2022-10-20T18:23:03Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> I think about protests as marketing for your position. The commercial where they throw soup at a Van Gogh didn’t do it for me.
But did you even hear about when they protested outside of a gas station or any of the other suggestions?
If the point is to make their voice heard, they succeeded. If the point is to make you agree with them, well, you aren’t going to no matter how they presented their message.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/29 "2022-10-20T18:28:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> If the point is to make their voice heard, they succeeded.
I’m not really a believer in “No publicity is bad publicity”. Having heard of them doesn’t help if I think supporting them is a waste of time, money and sanity due to their tactics. There’s likely a spot between “protested outside a gas station” and “vandalized fine art and glued their hands to walls” they’d be better off aiming for.
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/30 "2022-10-20T19:38:28Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Having heard of them doesn’t help if I think supporting them is a waste of time, money and sanity due to their tactics.
So, you will ignore the message if you don’t like how it’s delivered?
If enough people protest stupidly about climate change, will that fix it? IF not, then it’s really not about how the message was delivered, is it?
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/31 "2022-10-20T19:53:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> So, you will ignore the message if you don’t like how it’s delivered?
I’ll ignore the messengers if they don’t seem credible and act like chucklefucks. There’s a bajillion people trying to get messages to me daily, gotta start the filtering process somewhere. I’m generally in favor of combatting global warming, etc but I couldn’t tell you the nuances of these guys’ stance nor do I care. If I’m going to listen to someone on the topic it’ll be someone with more common sense than throwing soup in museums.
Their stunt failed to make me any more educated or motivated about global warming but it did convince me that these aren’t the people I want to listen to on the topic.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/32 "2022-10-20T20:20:35Z")
Yeah, the message behind the protests at gas station was clear: “Fight global warming by buying less gas!”. The message behind the van Gogh protest was… fight global warming by vandalizing art?
If lots and lots of people decided to fight global warming, that’d be good… unless they tried to fight it by doing stupid irrelevant stuff. Then it wouldn’t be good.
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/33 "2022-10-20T20:29:15Z")
Not that I condone their actions, but I believe their idea ( art vandalizers) was to bring attention to the issue by doing something that got them in the news.
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/34 "2022-10-20T20:34:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Their stunt failed to make me any more educated or motivated about global warming but it did convince me that these aren’t the people I want to listen to on the topic.
So, who do you listen to on the topic?
> [@bobot](#):
>
> I believe their idea ( art vandalizers) was to bring attention to the issue by doing something that got them in the news.
Exactly. We are talking about them, their cause, their reasons. Would we be doing that if they had stood outside their local Exxon-Mobile station with some signs?
Sure, what they did was stupid, but what they _were_ doing was completely ineffective.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/35 "2022-10-20T20:46:04Z")
> [@bobot](#):
>
> Not that I condone their actions, but I believe their idea ( art vandalizers) was to bring attention to the issue by doing something that got them in the news.
But once they “get in the news” they have to have a call to action, don’t they? Often it’s to just get an issue into the public eye, but there’s not too many of us who don’t know about the global climate change issue. So, they’re against it. I’m against it too. If I wasn’t against it, this wouldn’t help turn me to their side. If I am already against it, I still don’t know what they expect me to do. So, I’m comfortable saying this was a stupid way to protest. (I won’t be too hard on them, as I once chained myself to a fence at an Air Force base to protest US policies in Central America.)
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/36 "2022-10-20T20:53:03Z")
Hey, I don’t condone it, but it’s obvious what their immidiate goal was.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/37 "2022-10-20T21:45:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> So, who do you listen to on the topic?
Generally scientifically-leaning media though a fair amount seeps through more traditional news media as well.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> We are talking about them, their cause, their reasons
Honestly, not really. I mean, _you’re_ trying to press it to make some point (that I disagree with) but most people are just “lol those guys are dumb” and going on with their day. At most, making a mental note to ignore any fundraising emails from Just Stop Oil because you don’t want to pay for their next can of soup. Hell, we’re not even actually having a conversation _about_ climate change or oil, we’re just talking about whether or not throwing soup is an effective messaging tactic. They could have been protesting Russia or mink coats or revenge porn or LGBT education for all their actual message has mattered for the past 36 posts. So how was it effective?
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/38 "2022-10-20T21:52:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> They could have been protesting Russia or mink coats or revenge porn or LGBT education for all their actual message has mattered for the past 36 posts.
It all comes down to the messege printed on their t-shirts when they’re on TV. These guys were, what, Soy Bomb right?
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### Author:  [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/39 "2022-10-20T23:05:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> So, you will ignore the message if you don’t like how it’s delivered?
No, but I will ignore these idiots and contributing to anything they are involved with. Do you honestly think they are delivering a message to anyone that isn’t already aware of it? There’s probably not a single person who hears of their antics that isn’t aware of the climate crisis. The notion that some in this thread hold (“they are a wee bit misguided or naïve - but they mean well”) is disingenuous - these people are bullies and criminals. They are like toddlers who throw tantrums and break shit because they don’t get their way.
And what are they expecting me to do exactly? Where is that message? Breaking other people’s stuff and getting arrested doesn’t tell me what I should do to help. Further, backing and empowering a militant group could very well turn into a “new boss, same as the old boss” situation.
There are hundreds of stunts they could pull that would garner the same exposure without damaging other people’s property that could end in a press conference explaining their concerns and what I could do to help.
> [@bobot](#):
>
> Hey, I don’t condone it, but it’s obvious what their immidiate [sic] goal was.
Not to me it’s not. Get arrested? As Jophiel said, “Their stunt failed to make me any more educated or motivated about global warming”. Everyone has heard of global warming. Everyone knows it’s wrecking the planet. Set out a plan to fix it.
Do they even have a plan? I’ve listened to several of them screed on while they had the media’s attention. So far, I haven’t heard them offer solutions.
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-stop-oil-protesters/970406/40 "2022-10-20T23:49:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#):
>
> Not to me it’s not. Get arrested?
No. They wanted to get on tv. Whatever.
(Do you really think this is very complicated??)
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