# Just this side of trolling. Solutions? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511 "2019-11-15T23:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/21 "2019-11-16T01:21:03Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > The question is what can we non-mods do about it? We can’t accuse someone of trolling outside The Pit (where some trollish types never go). We can’t urge others not to respond to a poster who’s clearly trying to tick people off. And we can’t junior mod. All excellent rules, but what does that leave us? I don’t know about you, but my mouse has this convenient “rolly button” that I use to just skip over posts I don’t want to read. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/22 "2019-11-16T01:21:22Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Reported for attempting to derail a thread. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/23 "2019-11-16T01:30:54Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I meant when people accuse **HurricaneDitka** of violating some rule, I generally find myself thinking **HurricaneDitka** had not violated the rule. It seems quixotic to provoke self-reflection here, but many people would experience some personal growth when they realize that they’re defending someone they describe someone as a trouble-seeking unempathetic jerk, on a board that has literal and explicit rules against being that very same thing. But you do you, bro. Conservative mental gymnastics is an intriguing and entertaining sport. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/24 "2019-11-16T01:49:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know about you, but my mouse has this convenient “rolly button” that I use to just skip over posts I don’t want to read. But…but people are being wrong on the Internet! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/25 "2019-11-16T01:54:17Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I don’t think that is true, I do think the Mods try to stay very impartial and give more leniency to the handful of active righties on the board. Also they mod a post at a time more than the actual poster. So it appears they are taking sides, but it is a method of modding. Being impartial and giving more leniency to one side are at odds with one another. If one side gets away with something the other side would not, then that is inherently taking a side. * * * I do unfortunately think I see a greater tendency to hold to the letter of the rules for right wingers and to the spirit for left wingers, at least in the specific category of “getting really close to the line.” It does feel like more liberal posters get a mod jumping in saying “you know better” or telling them to back off when they get close, while the more conservative posters get a mod deliberately assuming a non-trolling explanation. But I’m not sure that’s intentional, and not because there are more left wingers so that the impact feels bigger to them than the single right winger or two who does it. They feel like the right winger gets called out enough, but the other posters don’t get as much. I think all the current mods have a natural (and laudable) “Don’t gang up on one person” reflex, and the demographics of this board mean this is more likely to happen with the lower numbers of conservatives than the higher number of liberals. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/26 "2019-11-16T01:56:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Being impartial and giving more leniency to one side are at odds with one another. If one side gets away with something the other side would not, then that is inherently taking a side. > > * * * > > I do unfortunately think I see a greater tendency to hold to the letter of the rules for right wingers and to the spirit for left wingers, at least in the specific category of “getting really close to the line.” It does feel like more liberal posters get a mod jumping in saying “you know better” or telling them to back off when they get close, while the more conservative posters get a mod deliberately assuming a non-trolling explanation. > > But I’m not sure that’s intentional, and not because there are more left wingers so that the impact feels bigger to them than the single right winger or two who does it. They feel like the right winger gets called out enough, but the other posters don’t get as much. > > I think all the current mods have a natural (and laudable) “Don’t gang up on one person” reflex, and the demographics of this board mean this is more likely to happen with the lower numbers of conservatives than the higher number of liberals. Wow, I think I completely agree with you for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/27 "2019-11-16T02:17:42Z")
If I held everyone in this thread to the same standard HD’s detractors hold him, I’d have reported like eight different people by now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/28 "2019-11-16T02:42:28Z")
That said, I think the problem mentioned in this thread is orthogonal to what I posted above. I think the main issue is that there is an imbalance on what behavior isn’t allowed. Ideally, the situation is that trolling is not allowed, but also accusing someone of trolling is not allowed. Such is balanced. If someone actually is trolling, you can report them and get that dealt with. However, the situation seems to me to be that saying someone is “not quite trolling” is still against the rules, but that, in may cases, “not quite trolling” is still okay. This creates an imbalance, as there is now no consequences to “not quite trolling,” thus encouraging such behavior. I think the solution has to be being allowed to point out some “not quite trolling.” And I think that just means rolling back the rules slightly, back to where they were back when we could full on attack the post but not the poster. You don’t need to say anything about the poster to point out that a post appears disingenuous. Such does not imply the poster is a troll and insulting them, just that they’ve made a bad post. And other stuff like that. I think that, if the other examples given above are allowed, that’s probably enough for the situation. It’s better than the current solution, which is for the other side to also try to edge up to the line as well. Inevitably one side goes over, and it is usually the less calculating side–i.e. the one not being disingenuous. So it still ultimately favors the disingenuous poster. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/29 "2019-11-16T02:45:19Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I was advised to start a new thread. I think this is important and hope I’m not alone, so here goes. > > We have a few posters here who repeatedly skate _juuust_ up to the line of trolling and are quite good at it. It’s very frustrating to those of us who come here for substantive debate done in good faith–a hallmark of the Dope. > > The question is what can we non-mods do about it? We can’t accuse someone of trolling outside The Pit (where some trollish types never go). We can’t urge others not to respond to a poster who’s clearly trying to tick people off. And we can’t junior mod. All excellent rules, but what does that leave us? > > We can individually and independently decide not to respond. After all, these posters feed on angry responses: it’s the motivation of trolls with the deviousness to avoid anything mod-able. But the silent approach hasn’t been very effective. These bad-faith posters are very, very good at posting stuff that’s incendiary enough to compel others to respond. And after all, aren’t we supposed to fight the ignorance of those who are reading the Dope online? > > Maybe there are no other possibilities. Maybe these people will continue unabated, and the rest of us will just have to suffer or leave. But on the off-chance there’s an effective way to fight the good fight here, I thought I’d toss this out. “I disagree with the contents of this post [actually I don’t, except for the sake of this example]. I am not going to explain why I think the poster is incorrect, for my own reasons. Stated for the record.” Repeat as needed. I wonder how (or if) the mods would respond to a flood of these. The use of recipes has actually been used to good effect in some Pit threads. Perhaps something like this would work in GD. Anyway, my very modest contribution to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/30 "2019-11-16T02:49:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That said, I think the problem mentioned in this thread is orthogonal to what I posted above. I think the main issue is that there is an imbalance on what behavior isn’t allowed. > > Ideally, the situation is that trolling is not allowed, but also accusing someone of trolling is not allowed. Such is balanced. If someone actually is trolling, you can report them and get that dealt with. > > However, the situation seems to me to be that saying someone is “not quite trolling” is still against the rules, but that, in may cases, “not quite trolling” is still okay. This creates an imbalance, as there is now no consequences to “not quite trolling,” thus encouraging such behavior. > > I think the solution has to be being allowed to point out some “not quite trolling.” And I think that just means rolling back the rules slightly, back to where they were back when we could full on attack the post but not the poster. You don’t need to say anything about the poster to point out that a post appears disingenuous. Such does not imply the poster is a troll and insulting them, just that they’ve made a bad post. > > And other stuff like that. I think that, if the other examples given above are allowed, that’s probably enough for the situation. > > It’s better than the current solution, which is for the other side to also try to edge up to the line as well. Inevitably one side goes over, and it is usually the less calculating side–i.e. the one not being disingenuous. So it still ultimately favors the disingenuous poster. I’m sorry, but if you think someone is “not quite trolling”, what’s wrong with reporting that post? Why do you feel the need to publicly post that you think someone is “not quite trolling”? Are you trying to stop the “not quite trolling” or trying to show to others that you are taking a stand against what you perceive as “not quite trolling”? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/31 "2019-11-16T02:50:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just to set the record straight, I do NOT _self_-identify as a “skate-to-the-line trollish poster”, but I am aware that a certain group of posters routinely accuse me of that, and posting in bad faith, and trying to rile people up, etc. and so when members of that certain group start a discussion about ‘some posters who’ do those things, it’s pretty clear to me that I’m the topic of conversation, even if I vehemently disagree with their assessment. > > I’m convinced that a significant amount of vitriol directed towards me has more to do with personal animosity than the content of my posts. For example, the drama over my mentioning of Eric Ciaramella. Other posters said his name. There was even a thread trying to identify him. Nobody cared. I mentioned it, in response to a question, and the mod loop blew up with reports that I was trying to get someone killed or putting the board in legal jeapordy, etc. > > So no, I don’t know what would end that personal animosity. I don’t think it has all that much to do with the content of my individual posts. I do admire your consistency. This post has the exact amount of accuracy and relation to reality as the rest of your 15,000 posts. Perhaps it is the memory of those posts that influence others. What else do we have to go on? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/32 "2019-11-16T02:52:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That said, I think the problem mentioned in this thread is orthogonal to what I posted above. I think the main issue is that there is an imbalance on what behavior isn’t allowed. > > Ideally, the situation is that trolling is not allowed, but also accusing someone of trolling is not allowed. Such is balanced. If someone actually is trolling, you can report them and get that dealt with. > > However, the situation seems to me to be that saying someone is “not quite trolling” is still against the rules, but that, in may cases, “not quite trolling” is still okay. This creates an imbalance, as there is now no consequences to “not quite trolling,” thus encouraging such behavior. > > I think the solution has to be being allowed to point out some “not quite trolling.” And I think that just means rolling back the rules slightly, back to where they were back when we could full on attack the post but not the poster. You don’t need to say anything about the poster to point out that a post appears disingenuous. Such does not imply the poster is a troll and insulting them, just that they’ve made a bad post. > > And other stuff like that. I think that, if the other examples given above are allowed, that’s probably enough for the situation. > > It’s better than the current solution, which is for the other side to also try to edge up to the line as well. Inevitably one side goes over, and it is usually the less calculating side–i.e. the one not being disingenuous. So it still ultimately favors the disingenuous poster. There is no need for any of that. Folks want differing viewpoints gone and this is nothing more than a long game for them. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/33 "2019-11-16T02:52:20Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Perhaps a mod will respond, but someone recently got a warning–changed to a note–for urging other posters not to bother responding to someone’s posts. > > Also there’s this: > > [http://https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=885388](http://https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=885388) > \*\* > nelliebly\*\*: > \*\* > engineer\_comp\_geek:\*\* > > So I doubt you could say any of your suggested comments and not get modded. That was my point though. You can’t use the T word. You mention ‘trollish behavior’ and ECG called you out for “a blatant accusation of trolling”. Had you said "“Just a reminder that responding to [del]trollish[/del] this type of behavior is counter-productive”, you may have been fine. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know about you, but my mouse has this convenient “rolly button” that I use to just skip over posts I don’t want to read. That’s the point of this thread. The OP specifically says “We can individually and independently decide not to respond. \ These bad-faith posters are very, very good at posting stuff that’s incendiary enough to compel others to respond” IOW, you can ignore the posts, I can ignore the posts, the OP can ignore the posts, but unless every single person ignores the posts, they’ll derail the thread. Go back to the days of “The Dio Show”. It only took one or two people to start bickering with him and the thread often wouldn’t recover. A lot of good threads, or threads that had good potential, either crashed and burned or ended up locked when he’d take them over. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/34 "2019-11-16T02:54:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sorry, but if you think someone is “not quite trolling”, what’s wrong with reporting that post? Why do you feel the need to publicly post that you think someone is “not quite trolling”? Are you trying to stop the “not quite trolling” or trying to show to others that you are taking a stand against what you perceive as “not quite trolling”? You’ll need a whole spectrum of responses for the not quite not quite trolls and the 3(not quite) trolls. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/35 "2019-11-16T02:54:36Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > … > Go back to the days of “The Dio Show”. It only took one or two people to start bickering with him and the thread often wouldn’t recover. A lot of good threads, or threads that had good potential, either crashed and burned or ended up locked when he’d take them over. Liberal was the master of that also. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/36 "2019-11-16T02:54:45Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > IOW, you can ignore the posts, I can ignore the posts, the OP can ignore the posts, but unless every single person ignores the posts, they’ll derail the thread. No they don’t. Because I can skip past their replies as well. So can you! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/37 "2019-11-16T02:55:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You’ll need a whole spectrum of responses for the not quite not quite trolls and the 3(not quite) trolls. You’ve not, not, not quite, not convinced me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/38 "2019-11-16T03:00:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No they don’t. Because I can skip past their replies as well. So can you! No, over the years many, many threads have been derailed beyond hope by one determined almost troll. Wave a red flag and dozens will take the bait and the OP will be all but lost. As pointed out, this is not one current poster but a long term and difficult issue for moderation team here at the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/39 "2019-11-16T03:04:39Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > …We can individually and independently decide not to respond… This is both the only thing non-mods can do AND the most effective thing. > [@](#): > > These bad-faith posters are very, very good at posting stuff that’s incendiary enough to compel others to respond. … No one can _compel_ anyone to respond. Period. Ignore these people and they will go away. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511/40 "2019-11-16T03:06:32Z")
The only way the mods could deal with this, perhaps, would be if someone tries to send the thread in a purposefully different direction - for instance, if there is a thread about female genital mutilation (FGM) but someone deliberately brings male circumcision into it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-this-side-of-trolling-solutions/843511.md?page=3)