# Just watched "Tangled". Am I the only one bothered by the plot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594 "2011-04-16T08:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/21 "2011-04-16T17:22:34Z")
One question about the movie: whenever Rapunzel sings she makes her “mother” young again. Why did Rapunzel grow up then? ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/22 "2011-04-16T17:28:42Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It was a very sappy movie overall (and I think over rated), but I did enjoy the horse quite a bit. Really? I hated the horse. It was an equine dog. Couldn’t they have used a dog character if they wanted him to have doggy characteristics? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/23 "2011-04-16T17:39:42Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Really? I hated the horse. It was an equine dog. Couldn’t they have used a dog character if they wanted him to have doggy characteristics? Err, that was kinda the joke. A dog doing things that dogs do isn’t really that funny. ---
**Author:** ![tugboats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tugboats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tugboats)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/24 "2011-04-16T17:52:59Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > One question about the movie: whenever Rapunzel sings she makes her “mother” young again. Why did Rapunzel grow up then? MAGIC. Just because witch mom gets to be young again doesnt necessarily mean Rapunzel had to forgo growing up. It never said anything about that in the story. Magic, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/25 "2011-04-16T18:11:27Z")
Also, Rapunzel wasn’t growing into a state of lesser health. I’d guess that “Mom” was returned to her healthiest state, which just happened to look younger. Or magic. I can live with magic and either a maximum age cap built into the spell or an age dispensation for those still growing. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/26 "2011-04-16T18:17:47Z")
It was Goethel’s flower first. The soldiers stole it from her, so she took Rapunzel to get her power back. She wouldn’t have kidnapped Rapunzel if it wasn’t for the power getting transferred to her. Goethel wasn’t going to make the same mistake twice, hence her caution to keep Rapunzel hidden from the world. Unless you think wanting to live forever is evil, she’s no worse than the next witch, and even grew to care for Rapunzel in a strange way. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/27 "2011-04-16T18:30:51Z")
I don’t think wanting to live forever is evil. But what matters isn’t intent, what matters is actions. And kidnapping a baby because you want to live forever is not a reasonable course of action. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/28 "2011-04-16T18:32:56Z")
The theme is selfishness. The witch is selfish. She’s not directly evil apart from the kidnapping, but excessively callous and uncaring. Manipulating the emotions of a captive “daughter” and spenind most of her time away, only at the tower enough to water her plant, so to speak. In the exposition at the beginning, the witch could have shared the magic flower with others and prevented it from being destroyed. Rapunzel doesn’t have a selfish bone in her body, yet spend the movie imprisoned by or on the run from characters who want her for their own selfish reasons. She’s even guided in her journey by a selfish guy. All she wnts is the answer to a burning question. Flynn starts off selfish, probably more so than anyone else except the witch. His story arc shows him gradually turning away from this attitude under the influence of Rapunzel’s inherent generosity. In the end, he repays her in the most unselfish act one can make: [spoiler]sacrificing himself to free Rapunzel from the witch. So we have the selfish character who stays selfish dying a horrible death, and a selfish character who learns to be unselfish resurected from death and joining a royal family to boot.[/spoiler] Yeah, plenty of plot points weren’t thought out all the way (the opening part was bad), and adult cynicism can render the basic message underwhelming and ambiguous, but to kids, the message is clearly: don’t be selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/29 "2011-04-16T18:37:28Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Sure, freedom is better than a gilded cage, but the alternative here was between gilded or rusty. No, the alternative was growing up the beloved daughter of the king and queen in a beautiful palace. The witch didn’t have to kidnap Rapunzel, she chose to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/30 "2011-04-16T18:43:57Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > No, the alternative was growing up the beloved daughter of the king and queen in a beautiful palace. The witch didn’t have to kidnap Rapunzel, she chose to do so. Indeed. But Rapunzel did grow up feeling loved. Selfish and manipulative love, buy love. Is that enough to have her brutally murdered by a lizard? ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/31 "2011-04-16T19:30:30Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > As long as we’re reading evil into Disney movies, please enjoy: [Mangled: Stay at Home Daughters on the Silver Screen,](http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/uncategorized/mangled-stay-at-home-daughters-on-the-silver-screen/) which objects to some different issues in the movie… > > (I haven’t yet seen _Tangled_ myself, I’m just offering this link.) I like it when she equates Rapunzel’s tiara to virginity. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/32 "2011-04-16T19:32:10Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > And then Rapunzel did grow up loved by her adoptive mother. Sure, overbearing, overprotective love. We must have seen different movies. Can you point me to the love? Any genuine affection at all? The witch did not love Rapunzel. There is nothing to suggest she even liked Rapunzel. She was an assett to be manipulated. She was a means to an end. Nothing more. She kept her captive in a tower, not to protect her but to protect the source of everlasting youth, depriving her any social interaction in the bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/33 "2011-04-16T21:00:11Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > We must have seen different movies. Can you point me to the love? Any genuine affection at all? > > The witch did not love Rapunzel. There is nothing to suggest she even liked Rapunzel. She was an assett to be manipulated. She was a means to an end. Nothing more. She kept her captive in a tower, not to protect her but to protect the source of everlasting youth, depriving her any social interaction in the bargain. She kept telling her she loved her through the whole movie. To manipulate her? Sure. Emotions are a complex thing. But still a way better attitude than the wicked stepmother Cinderella had to live with, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/34 "2011-04-16T21:12:28Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, not the nicest person in the world, admittedly. But she wasn’t evil - evil, witch from Snow White or Sleeping Beauty - clearly deserving to die - evil, is what I’m saying. And it’s still her kindness what destroys her. Not a great lesson for kids. I thought they depicted a bipolar mother wonderfully, for a kids’ movie. Cause there’s no doubt her mother loves her…just in a weird, freaky, overprotective way. Having been a child of such a mother, I loved-loved-loved this movie and when Rapunzel is going through her crisis at leaving home, I knew exactly how she felt. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/35 "2011-04-16T23:16:19Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Indeed. But Rapunzel did grow up feeling loved. Selfish and manipulative love, buy love. Is that enough to have her brutally murdered by a lizard? I don’t have children, but if I did I don’t think I’d consider any punishment too severe for the woman who kidnapped my baby, even if she did raise her with love. And frankly, what I saw in the movie was not love. If your position is that the witch wasn’t as bad as she possibly could have been then sure, there are even worse things that she could have done. But so what? Is your world view so black-and-white that you really need every movie villain to be completely, irredeemably evil? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/36 "2011-04-16T23:24:05Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > She kept telling her she loved her through the whole movie. To manipulate her? Sure. Emotions are a complex thing. But still a way better attitude than the wicked stepmother Cinderella had to live with, for instance. Watch it again. She’s always talking to Rapunzel’s hair when she says she loves her. She never kisses her on the cheek, only on her hair. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/37 "2011-04-16T23:31:58Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Watch it again. She’s always talking to Rapunzel’s hair when she says she loves her. She never kisses her on the cheek, only on her hair. I have the BluRay unopened at home and I’ll have to watch for that. I was thinking she “loved” Rapunzel like an addict loves her dope. That would dovetail nicely with your observation. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/38 "2011-04-16T23:32:56Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t have children, but if I did I don’t think I’d consider any punishment too severe for the woman who kidnapped my baby, even if she did raise her with love. And frankly, what I saw in the movie was not love. If your position is that the witch wasn’t as bad as she possibly could have been then sure, there are even worse things that she could have done. But so what? Is your world view so black-and-white that you really need every movie villain to be completely, irredeemably evil? Those getting killed at the end? Yeah. It’s not like the movie was particularly shaded with gray. We are told she’s evil. We are supposed to cheer her demise. I postulate they did a terrible job of it, never bothering to think about the implications of their own story. Remember that she went on a three day trip to make her a present.\* I\* wouldn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/39 "2011-04-16T23:34:31Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Watch it again. She’s always talking to Rapunzel’s hair when she says she loves her. She never kisses her on the cheek, only on her hair. But did Rapunzel feel loved? I could argue that at the end of the day, we should judge characters for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594/40 "2011-04-16T23:34:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I thought they depicted a bipolar mother wonderfully, for a kids’ movie. Cause there’s no doubt her mother loves her…just in a weird, freaky, overprotective way. Having been a child of such a mother, I loved-loved-loved this movie and when Rapunzel is going through her crisis at leaving home, I knew exactly how she felt. Yeah, that scene really hit home for me. I went through something similar when I emancipated. That woman did not love Rapunzel. Control through emotional manipulation is not love. She was passive-aggressively cutting her down all the time, too. Screw that witch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-watched-tangled-am-i-the-only-one-bothered-by-the-plot/578594.md?page=3)