# Just what CAN/WILL Obama do on immigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 3, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240 "2014-07-03T01:05:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/41 "2014-07-04T21:43:22Z")
oops ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/42 "2014-07-04T21:46:29Z")
Of course they want more, but they’ll settle. And legal residents do draw lots of benefits, especially Medicaid. Paul Krugman said that you can either have a generous welfare state or a liberal immigration policy. You can’t have both. [http://www.salon.com/2010/05/04/immigration\_open\_borders\_welfare\_state/](http://www.salon.com/2010/05/04/immigration_open_borders_welfare_state/) **Unlike most prominent progressives, Paul Krugman recognizes that you can have a high-wage social democratic welfare state or you can have unlimited immigration — but you can’t have both. Krugman observes that “open immigration can’t exist with a strong social safety net; if you’re going to assure healthcare and a decent income to everyone, you can’t make that offer global.”** ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/43 "2014-07-05T01:33:57Z")
All the USA has to do is punish the people that hire undocumented workers. But there is no will to do so. It is so much easier to exploit people who can’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/44 "2014-07-05T03:35:55Z")
It takes more than that. Not everyone comes to work or succeeds in getting work once they get here. Besides, it’s perverse to tell people, “We won’t deport you and we’ll give you access to social services, but whatever you do, don’t you dare work!” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/45 "2014-07-07T12:45:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Because we can’t take in 100 million that means we can’t take in say 10,000? How about roughly a [thousand times more](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html?_r=0)than that? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/46 "2014-07-07T12:59:38Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How about we establish rules like [Mexico](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Mexico) does and enforce them? Check out articles #9 and #32. Do you think you could illegally enter Mexico and they would give you welfare, and drivers license or a voter registration card? > > Not wanting our country to be invaded and having immigrants come here in in the established lawful manner does not make a person a bigot. Immigration is a good thing. Illegal immigration is a pathway to destruction of our own heritage and economic well-being. \ Very well stated! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/47 "2014-07-07T13:00:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How about roughly a [thousand times more](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html?_r=0)than that? > > Regards, > Shodan So you’re saying that we already have 10 million undocumented immigrants therefore we can’t make room for a few thousand children trying to escape desperate times in their homeland? [The US took in hundreds of thousands of European refugees after World War II.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html?_r=1&) > [@](#): > > By 1959 some 900,000 European refugees had been absorbed by west European countries. In addition, 461,000 had been accepted by the USA, and a further 523,000 by other countries. But many ‘hard-core’ refugees still remained in camps. At that point the United Nations launched an ambitious effort to resolve the refugee problem once and for all. Now we have to ask ourselves why, given that history of welcoming immigrants, some of us now want to slam the door on the southern border. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/48 "2014-07-07T13:40:54Z")
I suspect Obama will disregard Us Immigration law as and where it does not suit him. He has shown that he is willing to go beyond merely prioritizing enforcement action by granting a form of status to certain undocumented immigrants - a right reserved to Congress under US law. The current wave of Central Americans does not qualify under US law for asylum status in the United States even if they have a well founded fear in their home country. They must make their claim in the first safe country of transit. That means the great majority of Central Americans who traveled overland must make their claim in Mexico. This is not just a cruel US policy. It comes from the 1951 U.N. Refugee Convention and well settled international practices arising therefrom. Immigrants, refugee seekers, and asylum applicants do not have the right to transit multiple countries until they reach the one they would prefer to settle in. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/49 "2014-07-07T18:30:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So you’re saying that we already have 10 million undocumented immigrants therefore we can’t make room for a few thousand children trying to escape desperate times in their homeland? [The US took in hundreds of thousands of European refugees after World War II.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/us/immigrant-population-shows-signs-of-growth-estimates-show.html?_r=1&) You’re talking children here. Is the system really a good way to secure them a future? They’d be better off at home with their folks. If children can be placed with relatives in the US, or we can expedite adoption for some of them, that’s fine. But they should be deported before being put through our foster system. It’s the more humane option. If we can identify their relatives in their home countries, then it’s a no-brainer. They should be immediately returned home as per the Elian rule. > [@](#): > > Now we have to ask ourselves why, given that history of welcoming immigrants, some of us now want to slam the door on the southern border. The US has always controlled immigration rates. It’s what a sovereign state does. I think that in the 21st century, we can and should reconsider border controls. But the public isn’t there yet, and in the meantime, laws should be enforced. Maybe in the 22nd century… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/50 "2014-07-07T19:12:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re talking children here. Is the system really a good way to secure them a future? They’d be better off at home with their folks. If children can be placed with relatives in the US, or we can expedite adoption for some of them, that’s fine. But they should be deported before being put through our foster system. It’s the more humane option. If we can identify their relatives in their home countries, then it’s a no-brainer. They should be immediately returned home as per the Elian rule. > > The US has always controlled immigration rates. It’s what a sovereign state does. I think that in the 21st century, we can and should reconsider border controls. But the public isn’t there yet, and in the meantime, laws should be enforced. Maybe in the 22nd century… In many cases it’s their parents who sent them off in desperation, so if the parents don’t think they’re better off with them, who are you to say otherwise? I believe you missed the mark. I think the difference between welcoming post-WW II European refugees and modern day Central Americans is a matter of pigmentation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/51 "2014-07-07T20:20:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > In many cases it’s their parents who sent them off in desperation, so if the parents don’t think they’re better off with them, who are you to say otherwise? Who are the parents of these children to say that the US can’t have laws controlling immigration? > [@](#): > > I believe you missed the mark. I think the difference between welcoming post-WW II European refugees and modern day Central Americans is a matter of pigmentation. That, and abiding by the law vs. breaking it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/52 "2014-07-07T20:58:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The US has always controlled immigration rates. Not always, no. Never before the [Page Act of 1875](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_Act_of_1875). ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/53 "2014-07-07T21:14:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That, and abiding by the law vs. breaking it. > > Regards, > Shodan Give them a law they can follow. Oddly enough, I think that the recording industry might be a good model here. With the advent of online storage of music, piracy was a huge issue for recording artists/publishers/etc. At first, copyright owners insisted that they would not allow a la carte purchases of music and that the only way to acquire music was through physical media like CDs, etc. This led to rampant piracy. Now, the recording industry has come around and learned that there is plenty of money to be made by providing music affordably in a format that consumers want. Now, we have a plethora of legal download and streaming sources. Since consumers now have a law that can be followed, piracy is reduced. Both consumers and the recording industry are happy. I think the lesson to be learned here is that we (the USA) need to find a way to manage immigration in a way that meets the needs of both the immigrants and citizens. Right now, our system is set up to meet the needs of citizens by providing a cheap and exploitable source of labor and providing politicians with a convenient enemy to rail against. The dirty little not-so-secret is that illegal immigrants meet a very real need and those who benefit don’t want to change it. Until that happens, this will never change. Politicians will harangue about “securing the border”, but there will never be any serious effort to do anything but lots of theater. Meanwhile, real people die. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/54 "2014-07-07T21:15:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The US has always controlled immigration rates. The U.S. imposed essentially no immigration controls at all until the [Page Act of 1875](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_Act_of_1875) (to “end the danger of cheap Chinese labor and immoral Chinese women,” in the words of its sponsor) and did not start controlling immigration _rates_ until the [Emergency Quota Act of 1921](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Quota_Act). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/55 "2014-07-08T00:24:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > In many cases it’s their parents who sent them off in desperation, so if the parents don’t think they’re better off with them, who are you to say otherwise? > > I believe you missed the mark. I think the difference between welcoming post-WW II European refugees and modern day Central Americans is a matter of pigmentation. Post WWII refugees got welcomed because the problem was obvious. Pre-WW II Jews living in Germany - not so much. Unless you had connections, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/56 "2014-07-08T00:25:49Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > \*\*Just what CAN/WILL Obama do on immigration? > \*\* > He could try enforcing existing laws. But he won’t. No one is patrolling the borders. No one is getting deported. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/57 "2014-07-08T02:55:30Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > All the USA has to do is punish the people that hire undocumented workers. But there is no will to do so. It is so much easier to exploit people who can’t vote. Absolutely. If the employer side of the 1986 immigration reform were being enforced, things would be very different. I was working payroll when the 1986 act passed, and I remember it well. Every new employee would have to fill out an I-9, and show documents to prove he/she is legally able to work. Current (1986) employees would be grandfathered in, but every new hire had to fill out the I-9 and have their documents inspected. This, along with the amnesty, was going to solve the illegal immigration problem once and for all, or so we were told. But there was little or no penalty for a business to actually take the time to fill out the proper paperwork and check their new-hired employee’s documents, and it was criticized at the time as too onerous for small businesses. So that side of the equation never worked right, and that brings us to where we are today, a big ol’ mess. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/58 "2014-07-08T12:52:24Z")
The problem is that it tells people, “You can come here and we’ll take care of you, but you can’t work.” You don’t have sufficient deterrent unless foreigners know that not only will they lack employment if they come here, they will also receive no taxpayer support. They’ll be totally on their own. As for the employer side of things, it depends on who the employer is. At Pizza Hut, we had our files inspected every six months and if we didn’t have proper documentation we got fined $10,000 for each missing document. Apparently, if you run a factory in the hinterlands though, the government never comes calling. ANd I’m almost certain this has to be on purpose, until the business owner does something to piss someone important off. My current employer has the same policy. Not an illegal working for us unless they can fool e-Verify. But we’re in a metro area and I’d be willing to bet that illegal hiring, at least official W-2 hiring, isn’t a problem in urban areas. For daily labor and contractor work I wouldn’t be so sure, of course. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/59 "2014-07-08T15:51:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But we’re in a metro area and I’d be willing to bet that illegal hiring, at least official W-2 hiring, isn’t a problem in urban areas. For daily labor and contractor work I wouldn’t be so sure, of course. I don’t know what metro area you’re in, but in the Midwest, it’s quite common. E.g., [http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1210/121031wichita.htm](http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1210/121031wichita.htm) : a McDonalds franchisee in Wichita, Kansas, pled guilty to knowingly accepting a fraudulent identification document for work eligibility. They hired an illegal alien as the MANAGER of the restaurant, fully aware that she was illegal, and let her run the store for several years. (The fact that she was an illegal alien came to light as part of an investigation into allegations of other illegal aliens working at the store.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240/60 "2014-07-08T16:01:53Z")
[UN pushes for migrants to be called refugees.](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pushes-migrants-called-refugees-24463380) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-what-can-will-obama-do-on-immigration/692240.md?page=4)