# Just When I Think I Like the Pope, He Pulls this Shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326 "2022-01-06T14:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/102 "2022-01-07T02:52:59Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Without children humanity dies out and things start to get hard for us as we get older without a younger generation coming through. Some would see that as a bad thing. Personally I don’t have anything against those who don’t have children. However it is a point on which reasonable people can differ. Not at the moment. I mean, if population was sparse, maybe. But there are currently 7.9 billion of us and could be 9.9 billion in 2050. In 1800 it was 1 billion. Maybe some folks would do well NOT to reproduce and adopts kids that already here.If 3/4ths of the people of childbearing age decided not to reproduce, humanity would still be AOK. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/103 "2022-01-07T02:58:09Z")
If they don’t want to do something they shouldn’t. I can’t fix stupid. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Not at the moment. Yeah that’s my view. But I can see the viewpoint that says replacement rate or a bit lower will give us a softer landing. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/104 "2022-01-07T02:58:31Z")
Did I miss the memo about humans going extinct because we love our dogs and cats too much? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/105 "2022-01-07T04:01:56Z")
> Papal infallibility means he gets to decide what the Church’s doctrine is. If he says the Church believes X, then that’s it, that’s the final word. It’s like saying the POTUS is the commander in chief. His orders are the top of the military chain, there is no one higher. That’s what infallibility means. Why would you even do that? “Let’s have this _one guy_, chosen by a completely unaccountable process and unrestrained by any checks or balances whatsoever, make binding religious decisions for all 800 million of us, because clearly that’s better than exercising our own judgement”. In the political sphere, we used to call this “absolute monarchy”, and there’s a broad consensus that it didn’t work well. Now, to carry on your POTUS analogy, if all Catholics got to vote for Pope every four years, I think that would be a great improvement. Like, with every other major religion you have the traditional/fundamentalist/fucked up preachers and the progressive/modern/kumbaya preachers, and everyone can pick the one they like best, but with this one every priest has to follow the party line? Reminds me of another political system that didn’t work out well… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/106 "2022-01-07T04:16:44Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > > Papal infallibility means he gets to decide what the Church’s doctrine is. If he says the Church believes X, then that’s it, that’s the final word. It’s like saying the POTUS is the commander in chief. His orders are the top of the military chain, there is no one higher. That’s what infallibility means. > > Why would you even do that? “Let’s have this _one guy_ , chosen by a completely unaccountable process and unrestrained by any checks or balances whatsoever, make binding religious decisions for all 800 million of us, because clearly that’s better than exercising our own judgement”. Well, let’s begin that as mentioned earlier, that’s NOT what Papal Infallibility means (at least not since the mid 1800s). But the answer: Because that is how the RCC is organized. It is and has been a hierarchical top-down self-selecting corporate organization since at least the time of Constantine. _“But that’s absolutist not democratic”._ Yep. You got that. Fer cryin’ out loud it’s a _theocracy_, the “consent of the governed” is irrelevant. Those of us who don’t like to have the Pope in charge or the rules in place can and do leave, every day. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/107 "2022-01-07T09:17:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The point isn’t that you don’t have a moral responsibility to both of them. The point is that a person, ANY person comes before an animal. Why? Why do humans trump _other_ animals? Honest question. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/108 "2022-01-07T10:04:26Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Personally I don’t have anything against those who don’t have children. However it is a point on which reasonable people can differ. What is reasonable about having something against your neighbor who is not a parent? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/109 "2022-01-07T10:38:07Z")
The fact that he _occasionally_ says something that is in accordance with the most basic concept of equality and general human ethical behaviour doesn’t help him. Saying that violence against women is bad is a statement that I suspect every single person in this thread would agree with, it is nothing special, it is literally the very least that he can do and the easiest thing to do. Talk is very, very cheap, especially when uttered from a position of incredible wealth and palatial luxury. When it comes to difficult and courageous decisions that are wholly in the remit of his organisation, that are within his power to change? He is unimpressive. Could he save countless lives by promoting condom use? Yes, he chooses not to. Could he give women in the catholic church exactly the same rights as men? Yes, he chooses not to nor even promote it. Could he enhance the emancipation of women through the promotion of contraception? Yes, he chooses not to. Could he turn over all evidence worldwide on paedophile priests to the legal authorities? Yes, he chooses not to. Could the assets of the church be liquidated to help more poor people? Yes, he chooses not to. I could go on. The fact is that pretty much everyone in this thread could say exactly what the pope says when he is praised for his progressiveness. I also think that pretty much everyone in this thread, could, on the the first morning of their papacy, promote or enact policies that would materially benefit millions. That the precepts of his church allegedly hold him back is not an excuse for inaction. He chooses to adhere to them, he doesn’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/110 "2022-01-07T12:15:17Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > The headline? " Pope Francis calls violence against women an ‘insult to God’ in New Year’s Day homily." “Don’t beat her up, knock her up instead.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/111 "2022-01-07T12:38:11Z")
As I took the Pope’s message, it was not a statement against pet ownership, even among childless couples, so it doesn’t include the OP. But was a statement agains those who chose to substitute a pet as a child. We all seen ‘those people’ who consider their pet their child. To me that was who the Pope was targeting. It also appears to be one of his pet peeves, which overall is quite ironic given the saint he is names after. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/112 "2022-01-07T13:15:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > ANY person comes before an animal. says who ? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/113 "2022-01-07T13:16:47Z")
Exactly. My gf, son, and daughter are high on my priority list. But anyone else? Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/114 "2022-01-07T13:23:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We all seen ‘those people’ who consider their pet their child. Have we? I know the stereotype, and I’m sure it can be nutpicked here and there off of social media, but he is talking to an incredibly small number of people. I know thousands of pet owners, and none of them consider their pet to be their child. And one of the criteria I have for knowing pet owners is that they are willing to spend at least $50 a month on grooming. People love their pets, and consider them to be family, but they know that they are not their children. That they may treat them better than others treat their children is a condemnation of those who should be treating their children better, not the people who treat their pets well. People do sometimes use language “like” they are speaking to their children, but that’s not actually considering them to be so. Sometimes if I want my dogs to come in, I’ll say, “C’mon kids!” but I’m not doing so because I think that they are my children. As I said previously, the closest I’ve seen is empty nesters who may in some ways consider their pets to be replacements for their children that have grown up and out, but they’ve already done their duty of procreating and raising kids, so I’d say they have done their job. I think the problem is people making assumptions about others, blithely labeling them as ‘those people’, and then making judgements about them based on those assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/115 "2022-01-07T13:59:29Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Why? Why do humans trump _other_ animals? Honest question. It’s the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated. Do you want to be treated the same way your neighbor treats mice? The way a farmer treats his cows? The way a driver treats a squirrel? We’re not all going to turn into Vegan Buddhists, so either animals are below humans, or society turns into Death Race 2000. The really uncool part of the “I’d let you drown instead of my dog” idea is that if the holder of this ethic was the one drowning, people would risk their own lives to save them. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/116 "2022-01-07T14:21:29Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Why? Why do humans trump _other_ animals? Honest question. Because, according to doctrine, we all have within us “a spark of the divine.” Bowser doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/117 "2022-01-07T14:38:20Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated. Do you want to be treated the same way your neighbor treats mice? The way a farmer treats his cows? The way a driver treats a squirrel? The golden rule isn’t really supposed to be a race to the bottom. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > either animals are below humans, or society turns into Death Race 2000. Doesn’t really have to be an either or. There are some dogs I would save over some humans. We all make such value judgements. You may prioritize having a coffee every day over sending money to prevent children from dying of malaria, does that turn society into Death Race 2000? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > people would risk their own lives to save them. People _may_ do so, but they are under no obligation to do so. Even if there is no risk to their life at all. The same person who risks their life for a selfie or a tik tok video may have no desire to risk their life to save another person. Since we are immediately going to unlikely hypothetical scenarios in order to condemn pet owners, I ask you, if you had to choose between saving your child and a person who is working on the cure for cancer, would _you_ choose your child over saving the tens of thousands of lives that would come from saving the researcher? It’s not about valuing animals over people, it’s about valuing things you have an emotional attachment to over things that you don’t. I may feel guilt over letting a person drown, but I’d feel grief over letting my dog drown. If you only judge people by how they act in lose lose situations, then it is you looking to be judgmental, and only reflects on your self righteousness, not actually on them. Plus, from a purely practical standpoint, you are putting yourself at far less risk saving your dog than a random person. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/118 "2022-01-07T14:40:48Z")
If Catholic couples don’t have children, how’s a priest supposed to get laid? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/119 "2022-01-07T14:45:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If Catholic couples don’t have children, how’s a priest supposed to get laid? Good one! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/120 "2022-01-07T14:53:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated. Do you want to be treated the same way your neighbor treats mice? Ah yes, the classic doctrine of selfishness. I only help others because I want them to help me. I’m only nice to people because I don’t want to burn in hell. See, I’m an atheist. I’m nice to animals without expectation of niceness returned. I’d save a drowning person not because I expect them to save me, but because it feels the right thing to do. Saving my dog - or a drowning sheep or whatever, feels the same for me. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326/121 "2022-01-07T14:55:18Z")
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!! I just re-read the article and not only is this bastard against childfree people, he’s against having only children too!!! From the article: We see that people do not want to have children, or just one and no more. And many, many couples do not have children because they do not want to, or they have just one – Holy hell, as an only child on my father’s side, I am royally pissed off!!! Hey Asshole, stop with this PAPAL BULL!! You’re destroying the fucking planet!! Knock it off!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-i-think-i-like-the-pope-he-pulls-this-shit/957326.md?page=7)