# Just when you think that people are decent... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167 "2011-08-26T12:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/181 "2011-08-28T21:40:22Z")
I didn’t say it wasn’t directed at Obama. I asked what the political statement was that was separate from “don’t elect a nigger.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/182 "2011-08-28T21:41:10Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I didn’t say it wasn’t directed at Obama. I asked what the political statement was that was separate from “don’t elect a nigger.” Vote Obama out in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/183 "2011-08-28T21:45:25Z")
Great Old Ones, one Black President and you guys just fall apart, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/184 "2011-08-28T21:47:37Z")
I’m not a lawyer, and I will take this back if a lawyer shows up and disagrees ( **Bricker**??) but political speech is not protected because belonging to a political party (or being a racist) is not a protected class. A private business can fire you for political (or racist; personally I don’t think they are the same) speech, unless there is something in your contract that forbids it. Which, if this guy is working at a fast food restaurant, he doesn’t have anything like that, and if this is a right-to- work state, he’s completely screwed. As I mentioned earlier, during the Bush/Kerry election, a woman was fired simply for having a pro-Kerry sticker on her car. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/185 "2011-08-28T21:57:11Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > A private business can fire you for political (or racist; **personally I don’t think they are the same)** speech,… (bolding mine) Just to clarify, I agree that they are not the same thing. Though I think that the particular message we’re talking about is both racist and political. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/186 "2011-08-28T21:59:33Z")
Agreed. If the sticker said “Anybody But Obama in 2012” we wouldn’t be having this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/187 "2011-08-28T22:04:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > (bolding mine) > Just to clarify, I agree that they are not the same thing. Though I think that the particular message we’re talking about is both racist and political. I agree. What I was really trying to do was make sure I wasn’t accidentally giving the impression that Republican=racist. In this particular instance the message is both pro-Republican (sort of) and pro-racist, but even if that weren’t the case I believe he could be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/188 "2011-08-28T22:09:06Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I’m not a lawyer, and I will take this back if a lawyer shows up and disagrees ( **Bricker**??) but political speech is not protected because belonging to a political party (or being a racist) is not a protected class. A private business can fire you for political (or racist; personally I don’t think they are the same) speech, unless there is something in your contract that forbids it. Or your state has created an additional protection beyond the federal one, which at least California has. > [@magellan01](#): > > (bolding mine) > Just to clarify, I agree that they are not the same thing. Though I think that the particular message we’re talking about is both racist and political. OK, but only in the sense that all racism, when directed at a public figure, is political. It seems pretty clear to me that since the only connection to Obama is via his race, the only message of any significance in there is a racist one. If you think somehow there’s an actual political principle being espoused, fair enough, but it doesn’t have any content anybody can interpret, so why bring it up? Burning a cross on the White House lawn would be a political message by this standard; that doesn’t mean it’s “more” than racism. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/189 "2011-08-28T22:12:44Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I agree. What I was really trying to do was make sure I wasn’t accidentally giving the impression that Republican=racist. In this particular instance the message is both pro-Republican (sort of) and pro-racist, but even if that weren’t the case I believe he could be fired. Actually, all we know for sure is that it is 1) racist and 2) anti-Obama. We can then make a fairly good assumption that is is anti-demcocrat, but that doesn’t necessarily equate to pro-republican. Likely? Yes. But since we’re being careful… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/190 "2011-08-28T22:15:08Z")
I don’t really see why the political aspect should protect the message from its racist aspect. Vote Obama out = okay Fuck niggers = not okay Vote the nigger out = still not okay ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/191 "2011-08-28T22:15:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No it’s not. The analogy would only work if Dahmer did that in public and no one bothered to stop him. That’s what the OP is decrying: the fact that this guy is racist in public, and other people, who all know he is racist, are not doing anything about it. They are, in effect, condoning his racism. > > Furthermore, the OP was under a probably false assumption that this high quality sticker meant that it was mass produced. This would mean that a lot of people had these stickers on their car, and few enough were doing something about it that it was still profitable to sell them. This raises the problem from just being the people who have contact with this one asshole to people all over the country. Sure, you have some people that would be too afraid to do anything about it, but surely in a large enough sample size, there’d be a large campaign dealing with it. > > Granted, what you can do about a cannibalistic murderer is different from what you can do about a racist person. They aren’t the same, and the correct response is different. But both are undesirable, and both are something you would expect a decent person to do something about. You would not expect them to give tacit approval by remaining silent. I see your point and I think you are drawing a valid distinction between the bumper sticker and Dahmer, but I still don’t think the OP has a point. I see all kinds of bumper stickers all the time that I think are stupid as hell, but I don’t say anything about them. I think it’s unreasonable to assume that everyone who disagrees with a bumper sticker will say something about it, and that someone with such a bumper sticker will take the bumper sticker off if other people say something to them about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/192 "2011-08-28T22:20:25Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I genuinely do not understand the modern conservative viewpoint on racism. You’ve got the **Rand Rover** style denial of the existence any such thing as pervasive racism, where they’ll tell you that nothing is racially motivated, it’s just that we liberals keep finding racism where it doesn’t exist. Like, racism would be bad if it existed, but you assholes keep making it up because it doesn’t really exist anymore, so calm down. And where it does exist, that’s only one thing, and that’s bad, but calm down anyway. Well, first, I’m not sure why you think that my viewpoint on racism has anything to do with conservatives. My thoughts are mine alone–I didn’t get this viewpoint from anyone else, and others sure as hell aren’t clamoring to climb on board the RR-train. Second, you have (of course, as per usual around here) mischaracterized my position. I don’t deny the existence of racism. I very simply believe that (i) it is not the case that racism is involved just because something bad happens to a black person and (ii) it is not the case that everyone agrees with a stupid racist bumper sticker just because one guy puts it on his car. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/193 "2011-08-28T22:32:29Z")
Ended that post a little too early . . . I also believe that fiscal liberals have a vested interest in characterizing as much activity as possible as showing that racism is still extremely prevalent (because it supports their arguments for social programs). So, they will take any little thing as evidence that racism is still everywhere. A good recent example of this was the IMHO thread about a black girl who was at first informed she would be the valedictorian (the first black val that school has had for a while) only to be later told the school had decided that a white student would be a co-val with her. Totally racist, right? Turns out it was just because of how the math worked on the two co-vals scores–each had a decent claim to having the highest score depending on how you looked at it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/194 "2011-08-28T22:32:51Z")
Where’s the mischaracterization, exactly? As much as I hate to tell you you’re not like some kind of personal bogeyman to me, I’m not trying to misrepresent what anybody’s saying. Are you saying you haven’t often complained that some liberal was crying racist about something that wasn’t really racist, so they could be outraged about pervasive racism that doesn’t actually exist? If you haven’t done that, I have you confused with someone else, and I’m not talking about you. There are plenty of other people who do that. It’s just that since you did that in post 89 in this thread, I used you as an example. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/195 "2011-08-28T23:27:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The guy with the bumper sticker has the right to be express his odious and racist opinions, and in the OP’s place I couldn’t have been bothered to confront him or try to get him fired. But that the opinion expressed by his bumper sticker is racist is obvious. It is patently obvious that you are trolling. Damn, I\* hate\* agreeing with you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/196 "2011-08-28T23:29:18Z")
The mischaracterization was where you said that I say that “nothing is racially motivated.” I’ve never said that and don’t believe it. This thread is a good example–I see no reasonable interpretation of the actions described in the OP except that the truck driving dude is a racist. Also, I didn’t reallt like how you said I “deny the existence of pervasive racism”–I’m perfectly willing to believe such a thing exists (assuming you define what “pervasive racism” means exactly) if anyone shows me some evidence for it, but things like the co-val story and one guy with a bumper sticker do nothing to prove its existence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/197 "2011-08-29T00:32:10Z")
The bumper sticker mentioned in the OP is ugly mean and racist. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 100%. “Redneck” isn’t a racist term. Offensive, maybe, but not because of racism. I’ve never heard of an aboriginal American , Asian or black redneck, have you ? You have to be white to qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/198 "2011-08-29T00:46:12Z")
You could say the same thing about watching Glee. That doesn’t make it a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/199 "2011-08-29T01:07:48Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > The bumper sticker mentioned in the OP is ugly mean and racist. > > I’ve never heard of an aboriginal American , Asian or black redneck, have you ? > > You have to be white to qualify. Living in Mississippi I have met a number of people who either self identify as rednecks or are called rednecks who are Black, Asian, or Hispanic. Never with a Native American, true. You are correct that in a strictly literal interpretation, it would be mostly white people who got red necks from being outside farming all day and were sunburned, but as a cultural group I assure you; they come in all colors. ---
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/200 "2011-08-29T04:05:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Starving Artist** ’s position: “be a nice little black person, and we’ll give you your rights.” (That may not be your intention, but that’s the impression you leave, SA. Civil RIGHTS shouldn’t be something a person has to earn. That’s why they’re called “rights”. Although I’m all for educating the ignorant masses, the fact that Obama is a well-dressed, well-spoken black man is a bit of a mark against SA’s argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=11)