# Just when you think that people are decent... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167 "2011-08-26T12:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/341 "2011-09-05T18:24:40Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Pfft. I don’t want my sandwich made by some asshole that parades his bigotry around on the tailgate of his truck. How is that un-American? What’s your alternative? Should an employer issue a questionnaire asking potential employees’ political opinions? Which opinions should merit firing? Which [bumper stickers](http://www.slate.com/id/2106714/)? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/342 "2011-09-05T18:35:23Z")
I’m not sure what the point of the link is. In that story, the employer explicitly gave his employee a choice of whether to remove the bumper sticker or be fired. Again, however, you’re missing the point. There is an obvious distinction to be made between someone who has (say) a Bachmann sticker on her truck versus someone who has a sticker on her truck which essentially refers to the president as a nigger. If **MsWhatsit** doesn’t want Republican voters making her sandwiches, that’s one thing. If she doesn’t want open racists doing it, that’s clearly another. Now, I do think she has an obligation to tell the business owner/management _why_ she is boycotting, so they can take steps to correct the problem (ie., tell the employee to remover the sticker or stop parking in their lot). ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/343 "2011-09-05T19:18:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not sure what the point of the link is. In that story, the employer explicitly gave his employee a choice of whether to remove the bumper sticker or be fired. That was one case discussed in the article. How about the candidate for the Socialist Workers’ party in Miami? Is that okay? > [@](#): > > There is an obvious distinction to be made between someone who has (say) a Bachmann sticker on her truck versus someone who has a sticker on her truck which essentially refers to the president as a nigger. > > If **MsWhatsit** doesn’t want Republican voters making her sandwiches, that’s one thing. If she doesn’t want open racists doing it, that’s clearly another. > > Now, I do think she has an obligation to tell the business owner/management _why_ she is boycotting, so they can take steps to correct the problem (ie., tell the employee to remover the sticker or stop parking in their lot). What you’re saying is that a sufficiently offensive political opinion should be grounds for termination. And you would place this decision in the hands of a fast-food franchise owner. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/344 "2011-09-05T20:24:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that’s the construct that should exist, right? I think it’s the one that should be supported. Because, again, think of the other option **bengangmo** put forth. If you want him to respect your opinion, it seems that you must respect his. And by “respect” I simply mean giving it wide berth. It doesn’t suggest condoning it in any way. No, it is not a construct that should exist. I have said this repeatedly. There are things which are wrong. There is no acceptable minimal amount of child abuse or rape or murder - or racism. These acts should be viewed like smallpox and the ideal is extinction. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/345 "2011-09-05T20:38:49Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > What’s your alternative? Should an employer issue a questionnaire asking potential employees’ political opinions? Which opinions should merit firing? Which [bumper stickers](http://www.slate.com/id/2106714/)? My alternative is getting my sandwich from a different sandwich shop. What the employer chooses to do as a result of this is up to him. And yes, if I were going to boycott a business based on the publicly-displayed views of one of his employees, I’d let him know why. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/346 "2011-09-05T20:43:05Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > My alternative is getting my sandwich from a different sandwich shop. What the employer chooses to do as a result of this is up to him. > > And yes, if I were going to boycott a business based on the publicly-displayed views of one of his employees, I’d let him know why. Good. Be sure to tell him, “I’m boycotting your sandwich shop because of something you have no legitimate control over.” ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/347 "2011-09-05T20:53:49Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Good. Be sure to tell him, “I’m boycotting your sandwich shop because of something you have no legitimate control over.” What an odd thing for me to say. No, I’d stick with, “I noticed that one of your employees has a highly offensive racist bumper sticker on his vehicle, and since I find that objectionable, I am no longer patronizing your establishment and am informing you as a courtesy.” You, of course, would certainly be welcome to say anything you liked to a business owner whose business you were no longer patronizing for whatever reason. It’s a free country. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/348 "2011-09-05T21:16:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, it is not a construct that should exist. I have said this repeatedly. > > There are things which are wrong. There is no acceptable minimal amount of child abuse or rape or murder - or racism. These acts should be viewed like smallpox and the ideal is extinction. You are conflating thoughts and acts. People should be able to hold whatever belief they chose. Even repugnant ones. If they act on them, that is another matter entirely. There are no thought police, much as you might want there to be. That is a belief that I find repugnant, but you keep it in your head all you want. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/349 "2011-09-05T21:37:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You are conflating thoughts and acts. People should be able to hold whatever belief they chose. Even repugnant ones. If they act on them, that is another matter entirely. There are no thought police, much as you might want there to be. That is a belief that I find repugnant, but you keep it in your head all you want. Posting a bumper sticker is an act. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/350 "2011-09-06T02:30:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Posting a bumper sticker is an act. Okay. But should we ban all bumper stickers that you find highly offensive? Then can we add to that list the ones I find highly offensive? I’m sure others would like to add to that list, as well. Where do you draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/351 "2011-09-06T02:38:24Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > How many racists are married to non-racists? Birds of a feather flock together, have chicks, and raise them to be little racists too. If you married an ass who drives around with a slur on his bumper, you’re either just like him, or knew what you were getting when you said I do. No sympathy. Nits make lice, eh? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/352 "2011-09-06T02:45:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay. But should we ban all bumper stickers that you find highly offensive? Then can we add to that list the ones I find highly offensive? I’m sure others would like to add to that list, as well. Where do you draw the line? I don’t think anyone has proposed banning any bumper stickers. The lines on the issues actually draw themselves, no need for any one person to be drawing them. The offensiveness of the bumper sticker directly relates to the number of people willing to voice their objection to it. If the OP had decided to organize a boycott based on said employee having a McCain sticker I doubt they would have drawn a significant enough crowd to effect them, but since the issue is a racist political sticker enough people may have had concern to be meaningful. If you would like to organize a boycott based on things you find highly offensive, go for it more power to you, it’s just gets kinda awkward and ineffectual when you’re the only one joining your own boycotts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/353 "2011-09-06T03:10:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay. But should we ban all bumper stickers that you find highly offensive? Then can we add to that list the ones I find highly offensive? I’m sure others would like to add to that list, as well. Where do you draw the line? We shouldn’t ban anything. At no point have I suggested making anything illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/354 "2011-09-06T03:20:00Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > A friend of mine showed me a picture that a friend of his took of the vehicle parked in front of his in a downtown parking lot yesterday. It was a large black pickup truck, complete with testicles dangling off the trailer hitch, and it had a bumper sticker taking up most of the rear. The sticker said “Don’t Re-Nig in 2012.” It was not homemade, so some company is actually profiting from making this filth. > > I am not generally someone who wishes victimization upon others, but I have to say I’d cheer a little if I found out this dude got punched in the face or his truck got vandalized. But I’m somewhat amazed that in this day and age, someone could drive around with that on their vehicle and feel perfectly okay doing so. In my universe, racism is something that people keep to themselves, only letting it out when they think you’ll agree with them, or when they don’t realize that what they’re saying is racist. It’s not something that’s broadcast on the back of a pickup truck for the whole world to see. I thought things were getting better, that our country was becoming more color-blind and accepting of differences. But are we, when that asshole feels perfectly safe driving around displaying that crap for the world to see? > > The guy who took the picture actually figured out who drove the truck and confronted him (not that the conversation went anywhere). He also found out where he worked (a fast-food restaurant in a building with lots of government offices) and is organizing a boycott of the restaurant, complete with a heartfelt letter written to the restaurant manager and signed by many of his co-workers, telling him that they would no longer be frequenting the restaurant and why. But that won’t change the fundamental issue, and I doubt anything will. jamiemcgary? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/355 "2011-09-06T03:45:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We shouldn’t ban anything. At no point have I suggested making anything illegal. No, you just think it’s a good idea to stalk them to their place of work and try to deny them a livelihood. Not everything bad is the product of government action. Also, I think that racists should spend as much time as possible making sandwiches. How would you prefer he spend his time? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/356 "2011-09-06T04:16:37Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > You see, white people want so much to not be racist, they really do, but when you ever allege that anything is ever racist, they just get so mad they can’t help themselves but to continue being racist. That’s what SA is trying to say. Just never, ever call anything racist ever and after several centuries maybe white people will stop being racist. That, and pull up your pants. It helps if you close your eyes and whisper ‘Pleasepleaseplease don’t be racist, guuuys.’ ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/357 "2011-09-06T05:29:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We shouldn’t ban anything. At no point have I suggested making anything illegal. So, you want to punish someone and have him lose his job for not doing anything illegal, or not doing anything wrong on the job. Great. For all you know he was a guy who you thought gave you great service last week. The problem is that you think your morals must be adopted by everyone. Sure, people will have their own ideas, but if they deviate too far for your liking, you think they need to be punished. Even if the law doesn’t. Sounds like you wouldn’t have been on the side of the ACLU when they supported the right of people with Nazi beliefs to march in Skokie, IL. As ugly and detestable as I find Nazism, the ACLU was on the right side of the issue on that one. Similarly, I would never, ever burn the American flag, but I support someone else to make that statement if they think they must. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/358 "2011-09-06T05:32:57Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I don’t think anyone has proposed banning any bumper stickers. The lines on the issues actually draw themselves, no need for any one person to be drawing them. The offensiveness of the bumper sticker directly relates to the number of people willing to voice their objection to it. > > If the OP had decided to organize a boycott based on said employee having a McCain sticker I doubt they would have drawn a significant enough crowd to effect them, but since the issue is a racist political sticker enough people may have had concern to be meaningful. > > If you would like to organize a boycott based on things you find highly offensive, go for it more power to you, it’s just gets kinda awkward and ineffectual when you’re the only one joining your own boycotts. Oh, so as long as you can rally enough people with pitchforks it’s okay. Never mind that the guy hasn’t broken any laws. You don’t like it, so he must be punished. Hmmm, I seem to recall when groups of people in the South held similar views. There’s a whiff of irony in the air, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/359 "2011-09-06T06:06:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, so as long as you can rally enough people with pitchforks it’s okay. Never mind that the guy hasn’t broken any laws. You don’t like it, so he must be punished. Hmmm, I seem to recall when groups of people in the South held similar views. There’s a whiff of irony in the air, I’d say. Ah, the old “people who are intolerant of intolerance are just as bad” hail mary, well played sir. Game, set **match.** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/360 "2011-09-06T06:41:34Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > No, you just think it’s a good idea to stalk them to their place of work and try to deny them a livelihood. Not everything bad is the product of government action. > [@magellan01](#): > > So, you want to punish someone and have him lose his job for not doing anything illegal, or not doing anything wrong on the job. Yes, you guys are finally grasping the point. If somebody wants to harass and intimidate black people in public then he can expect to be harassed and intimidated in public. > [@magellan01](#): > > Sounds like you wouldn’t have been on the side of the ACLU when they supported the right of people with Nazi beliefs to march in Skokie, IL. Cook County and the state of Illinois was trying to make it illegal for the Nazis to march. As I’ve said numerous times, I’m not trying to make anything illegal. But I’d have been happy to join in a boycott of any business that was owned by or knowingly employed Nazis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=19)