# Just when you think that people are decent... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167 "2011-08-26T12:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/41 "2011-08-26T17:48:33Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > I’ve got no problem boycotting a business that hires openly racist employees. Violence or vandalism is going too far but there should be societal consequences for being an asshole. But here’s the rub. There used to be “consequences” for black people doing what black people should be able to do in a free society. The same goes for women, jews, gays, whoevers. At some point disagreement turns into some sort of social version of “an offer you can’t refuse”. Now, there is no doubt a big gray area there. But, IMO, besides using your free speech to say “thats fucked up and here’s why” the battles to fight oppresion/whatever need to fought in/with the legal system. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/42 "2011-08-26T17:56:48Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > There used to be “consequences” for black people doing what black people should be able to do in a free society. The same goes for women, jews, gays, whoevers. Yes, like running for public office, for instance. And those people’s rights to do such things sometimes had to be enforced and protected at gunpoint. Against and from people who said things like don’t let that nigger be elected. Used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/43 "2011-08-26T18:17:46Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Just when you think that people are decent… Well \*there’s \*your problem. > [@](#): > > He also found out where he worked (a fast-food restaurant in a building with lots of government offices) and is organizing a boycott of the restaurant, complete with a heartfelt letter written to the restaurant manager and signed by many of his co-workers, telling him that they would no longer be frequenting the restaurant and why. Now this, I have a problem with. If the restaurant were owned by a racist, fine, boycott them–I don’t want to give my money to racists, either. But to refuse to patronize a business because they’ve \*hired \*someone who holds and legally expresses views that you personally find distasteful? :dubious: As long as the guy can _perform his job without prejudice_, I don’t give a shit what his personal views are, so far as his continued employment is concerned. If you were to figure out that he’s a racist from the way he’s treating the customers, absolutely go to the management with it and boycott them if they don’t take action, but to say that people whose beliefs you don’t agree with (or find downright repulsive) don’t even deserve to be employed… That’s pretty fucking unAmerican. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/44 "2011-08-26T18:20:35Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > As long as the guy can _perform his job without prejudice_, I don’t give a shit what his personal views are, so far as his continued employment is concerned. If you were to figure out that he’s a racist from the way he’s treating the customers, absolutely go to the management with it and boycott them if they don’t take action, but to say that people whose beliefs you don’t agree with (or find downright repulsive) don’t even deserve to be employed… That’s pretty fucking unAmerican. Pfft. I don’t want my sandwich made by some asshole that parades his bigotry around on the tailgate of his truck. How is that un-American? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/45 "2011-08-26T18:24:15Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Pfft. I don’t want my sandwich made by some asshole that parades his bigotry around on the tailgate of his truck. How is that un-American? Believing that everyone should share your beliefs, or else? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/46 "2011-08-26T18:28:46Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Yes, like running for public office, for instance. And those people’s rights to do such things sometimes had to be enforced and protected at gunpoint. Against and from people who said things like don’t let that nigger be elected. > > Used to be. And who was doing the protecting? It starts with an L. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/47 "2011-08-26T18:30:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Believing that everyone should share your beliefs, or else? > 🙂 No, just my belief that you shouldn’t be a bigot. Or else…I’ll take my business elsewhere, yes. Ooh, how very un-American, choosing where to spend my money. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/48 "2011-08-26T18:37:33Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh, I did miss that nuance. I will agree that you should feel _physically_ safe to express whatever opinion you choose, although I still say that the business boycott is completely reasonable under the circumstances. I have no worries if racists live in fear of getting their asses kicked or their property vandalized by others. In fact, I think it is a good thing, especially because the MO of so many racists is to make others live in fear of personal violence and vandalism for the crime of not being the right color. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/49 "2011-08-26T18:38:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And who was doing the protecting? It starts with an L. L is for[Dwight Eisenhower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_National_Guard_and_the_Integration_of_Central_High_School), professor. What does this have to do with anything, other than giving you a clean shot at your own groin? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/50 "2011-08-26T18:43:31Z")
Is it terrible that I laughed? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/51 "2011-08-26T18:44:51Z")
As racists go, this guy has some points in his favor. For one, he’s open; I’d _rather_ people say what they think than be cowed into keeping secrets. Ugly, hateful and wrong ideas, in the light of day, can be spotted and met. For another, he’s _not_ promoting violence, either explicitly (“shoot them at the border”) or implicitly (black hand chained to bumper, which I take to be a reference to the murder of James Byrd Jr.). No, he’s talking about _ **voting** _. He might even claim that his objection to Obama is primarily political, not just based on race! Of course we’d take that for bullshit, but he’s no different there than a few million other Americans. I can’t disagree with someone _choosing to spend their money_ elsewhere on the basis of this, or most anything, but the petition to the employer, over something that is _not happening in the workplace_, is a little different. I wonder what exactly they expect to happen. > [@villa](#): > > I have no worries if racists live in fear of getting their asses kicked or their property vandalized by others. In fact, I think it is a good thing, especially because the MO of so many racists is to make others live in fear of personal violence and vandalism for the crime of not being the right color. I don’t think assaulting people for _what they think_ is any better than assaulting them for _who they are_. I’ll fight on the basis of _actions_, no less. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/52 "2011-08-26T19:14:39Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Is it terrible that I laughed? The word you are looking for here is “unsurprising.” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/53 "2011-08-26T19:22:17Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I don’t think assaulting people for _what they think_ is any better than assaulting them for _who they are_. Not all opinions are created equal. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > I’ll fight on the basis of _actions_, no less. Well, if you _read_ what I _wrote_, you’ll _see_ my _argument_ is that there isn’t such a fine distinction to be drawn. The purpose of the expression of racist sentiments is very often to create a climate of fear in their target group. Repaying that by teaching the scum what it is like to live in fear doesn’t strike me as a bad thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/54 "2011-08-26T19:23:45Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > The word you are looking for here is “unsurprising.” No, no. I meant terrible. I guess it’s one of those things I shouldn’t laugh at, but did anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/55 "2011-08-26T19:26:23Z")
I have mixed opinions on the boycott. On the one hand if you had an innocuous **Re-elect Obama in 2012** bumper sticker on your car there are people fanatical enough to boycott your employer about it, and if you had a [clean but identifiable pro gay marriage symbol](http://kristinsdesk.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gay_marriage_large.jpg)- which some people find highly offensive, some agree with, and probably most wouldn’t notice- you’d _absolutely_ get boycotted by the extreme right. If that happened you’d definitely think people were overreacting. OTOH, it would be less reasonable to be severely offended by a Re-elect Obama or a pro-gay bumper sticker, which is just a poltical p.o.v., than “Don’t ReNig” which is blatantly and intentionally racist. I would never stop patronizing a place with an employee who drove a \*\*Palin 2012 \*\*bumper sticker so long as they still were courteous but I would definitely not patronize a place with the ReNig employee or that displayed homophobic merchandise. (I once had more than a hundred dollars of merchandise I was going to buy in a T-shirt shop in Atlanta and put it all back when I saw a T-shirt that read “Silly Faggots: Dicks are for Chicks”.) OTO-Other-H, if I were the owner of the business I would _want_ to know why I was losing customers. No easy answer so go with your gut. [QUOTE=Drain Bead] I am not generally someone who wishes victimization upon others, but I have to say I’d cheer a little if I found out this dude got punched in the face or his truck got vandalized. [/QUOTE] Word. I believe every law abiding person should have the right to walk down a street without being mugged, but if somebody happens to walk down a street in a bad section of town fanning a stack of $100 bills in front of them and a mugger snatches it from them and runs off I’m going to think “moron” just as strongly as I think “thief”. Knowing fully well that there are a lot of fanatical and or unbalanced people out there this guy is choosing to intentionally piss people off (again, if he had a \*\*Palin 2012 \*\*sticker I’d disagree with his political views but wouldn’t think he was being deliberately inflammatory- Re Nig is deliberately inflammatory) and I wouldn’t cry if he pissed off the wrong one. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/56 "2011-08-26T19:29:55Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Pfft. I don’t want my sandwich made by some asshole that parades his bigotry around on the tailgate of his truck. How is that un-American? Because it opens the door to people boycotting other places of business because, say, one of the employees has a gay pride bumpersticker. Or, for something less common and socially acceptable, a sticker that indicates that the person is a furry or involved in a (consensual adult) D/s relationship. Boycotting a business based on the personal beliefs of \*its owner \*makes sense, because the more patronage they receive, the more they’re able to exert influence based on those beliefs. Boycotting business based on the personal beliefs of \*some fucking burger flipper \*is just petty. The guy’s wage isn’t going to go down because you’re getting your fries at McDonald’s instead of Wendy’s; worst-case, he’ll be fired for holding a \*perfectly legal (albeit wrongheaded and distasteful) belief \*that he was mature enough to keep from interfering with his job. (And if it is interfering with his job, then get him fired for that–not for a fucking _bumpersticker_.) And yes, it is unAmerican, because the \*point \*of this fucking country is that we get to think and say whatever we want, so long as we don’t cause harm to others. That goes out the window when something you say, legally, outside of work, that in no way affects your ability to effectively do your job, gets you _fired_. Because for every person you’re happy to see fired for being a bigot, someone with a completely different set of views is going to use the same reasoning to try to force the termination of an employee with a belief that you find acceptable but they object to. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/57 "2011-08-26T19:35:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I would never stop patronizing a place with an employee who drove a \*\*Palin 2012 \*\*bumper sticker so long as they still were courteous but I would definitely not patronize a place with the ReNig employee or that displayed homophobic merchandise. There’s a world of difference between \*hiring \*someone who \*has \*a racist bumpersticker and \*selling \*bigoted merchandise. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/58 "2011-08-26T19:38:37Z")
Both show implicit acceptance of bigotry if done with the manager’s knowledge. Personally I couldn’t care less what my employees’ political opinions are but I wouldn’t knowingly hire somebody who intentionally offends people- something for which there’s rarely if ever an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/59 "2011-08-26T19:41:50Z")
Why should a manager have any knowledge of what I put on my car? Why should it be any of my manager’s fucking business? I once watched a floor full of Japanese skinheads skank to Screwdriver (it was fucking hilarious). Maybe my job should fire _me_. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/60 "2011-08-26T19:46:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Why should a manager have any knowledge of what I put on my car? Why should it be any of my manager’s fucking business? Because his staff represents his business, especially when the car is parked in his lot. [QUOTE=Shot From Guns] I once watched a floor full of Japanese skinheads skank to Screwdriver (it was fucking hilarious). Maybe my job should fire _me_. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Maybe so. I have no opinion on the matter as I haven’t a clue what that means. (I know what Japanese means and guess that skinhead means shaved head rather than Aryan, but that’s where it ends.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=4)