# Just when you think that people are decent... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167 "2011-08-26T12:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/101 "2011-08-27T02:14:19Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I am shocked. SHOCKED! That the first reaction is to assume the bumper sticker was racially oriented. I think it speaks volumes of the reader, personally. Possibly to some pent-up racist tendencies of his own. > > “Nig” could just as well be short for “niggardly” giving the sticker a whole new meaning as a reference to a desire for increased government-originated economic stimulus. Says the man with “nig” in his user name. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/102 "2011-08-27T02:25:35Z")
> [@11811](#): > > Says the man with “nig” in his user name. I’m too tired to do binary math. Say what? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/103 "2011-08-27T02:34:27Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Could you just make a macro that says ‘it’s all the liberals fault’ and use it rather then typing out your typical bullshit it would save everyone time and brain cells. If you’re reading along in a thread and suddenly come to a **Starving Artist** wall o’ text post, it’s probably safe to skip it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/104 "2011-08-27T02:39:04Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > **villa** , I don’t appreciate you deliberately misusing the word “vigilante” here to play down the position you took up. Informing a music venue about the identity of Skrewdriver is not any kind of vigilantism, as I suspect you know; that’s mild activism. When I used the word, I was talking about physically assaulting people for their beliefs and words; that’s what I understand you to have endorsed. It wasn’t so much that they told the music venue the band was Skrewdriver. It was that they insinuated that they’d burn down the venue if the concert went ahead. Mostly, it was just that Skrewdriver crowds tended to destroy anything they came into contact with, including nightclubs and bingo halls, though. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/105 "2011-08-27T02:49:14Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > What, no “well-spoken”? This is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about when I talk about liberals crying “racist” at every opportunity and shutting down dialog on race. The point, which I’m sure you already know, is that by confronting racism in a dignified way, such as MLK and other civil rights proponents did, opened people’s minds to the inhumanity invovled in racism and created sympathy toward the people subjected to it, which in turn changed people’s minds and caused them to rethink and change their racist attitudes. Those early civil rights demonstrators were effective in changing minds; **drain bead’s** approach isn’t. I can guarantee you that not one person will be made less racist because of the way she is reacting to this situation, and the target of her ire will most likely become even more entrenched in his racism than he now. Plus, like I said there could be negative reverberations harmful to blacks should the restaurant owner decides it’s just too risky from a business standpoint to employ them. But still, I’ll play your game. Given that the goals and impact of Martin Luther King’s _I Have A Dream_ speech still resonate strongly today, I’d say “well-spoken” is a pretty good way to combat racism. Of course if you have an argument in favor of inarticulateness being a helpful solution to racism, I’d be interested to hear them. > [@carnivorous plant](#): > > Here I was, thinking you made a good point, but this last sentence helps how? To be honest, it’s a way of trying to get through. Sometimes people will resist polite attempts to question their motives, but if you hit them between the eyes with it, they may in time, once the resulting anger subsides, give a little thought to the subject and question, even if only to themselves, whether perhaps their adversary had a point. The OP strikes me as that kind of person. Still, it was probably a mistake to include that poster-specific comment in a post intended for a general audience, and I apologize to anyone else who may have been offended by it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/106 "2011-08-27T02:56:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It’s like saying "I thought it would be unacceptable to jill people and eat them There are situations where jilling and eating somebody is not only acceptable behavior but will be strongly encouraged by the recipient. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/107 "2011-08-27T03:09:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To be honest, it’s a way of trying to get through. Sometimes people will resist polite attempts to question their motives, but if you hit them between the eyes with it, they may in time, once the resulting anger subsides, give a little thought to the subject and question, even if only to themselves, whether perhaps their adversary had a point. Nah, you’ll just piss them off. Hell, I was agreeing with you, and it pissed me off. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/108 "2011-08-27T05:14:21Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And thats the very same system that bad old guys in the bad old days used to keep whoever down. Yeah, and guns carried by cops use _exactly the same chemical propellants as guns carried by crooks_. Eeeek! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/109 "2011-08-27T05:45:39Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > A Mexican restaurant near my house always had Fox News on two giant TVs when I went in there. One time the family and I got there a bit early and Glenn Beck was on. It was too much for me, so we turned around and left. My wife was both annoyed and amused. > > So, when we got home from the a different Mexican restaurant a little farther down the road I wrote a letter to the first restaurant. I pointed out that the next time I walked into the place and Fox News was running I’d turn around and walk out. > > Hasn’t been on since. > > -Joe Oh great. Now there is a group of Mexican restaurant workers who are terrified they are going to be fired if they don’t change the channel fast enough when they see you pull into the parking lot. It wasn’t as if the lookout’s life wasn’t stressful enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/110 "2011-08-27T06:17:30Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@billfish678](#): > > > > And thats the very same system that bad old guys in the bad old days used to keep whoever down. > > Yeah, and guns carried by cops use _exactly the same chemical propellants as guns carried by crooks_. Eeeek! :eek: And how about World War II? The Nazis were using tanks and airplanes. So obviously we shouldn’t have have used them. We were just fighting the Nazis at their level. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/111 "2011-08-27T08:27:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In my opinion there would be far less racism today had the tactics and philosophy of Martin Luther King predominated over the last forty years rather than the angry and punitive type demonstrated so well by our excruciatingly self-righteous and punitive OP. You do realize, I assume, that Dr King wasn’t considered dignified and well behaved? He was considered a criminal and a dangerous radical. He was surveilled by federal agents. He was thrown into jail. He was shot and killed by a cracker. The civil rights movement wasn’t about sitting down and rationally discussing things with the racist scum because that isn’t possible. It was about telling them people weren’t going to take it any more. It focused on direct action - strikes and boycotts - and included from the early days illegal action. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/112 "2011-08-27T11:02:33Z")
Neither King nor anyone else could have done a thing about racism if the American people as a whole weren’t sympathetic to the cause. And the reason they were sympathetic to the cause was because of the way civil rights marchers conducted themselves in the face of fire hoses and police dogs, and because of the way the words of civil rights leaders like King resonated with them as human beings. In short, King may have broken some of the laws of the time, but he wasn’t a thug. And no, he didn’t sit down and discuss things with racists, but he made progress by showcasing the humanity of black people and working to increase understanding on both sides instead of stamping his feet and calling people names and stirring up hatred on both sides. The key to eliminating racism is empathy and understanding, and King and other civil rights leaders of the day understood that. It may be more satisfying to yell at racists and call them names and demand that they be fired and so on, but all you accomplish by that in reality is to create more of the very thing you’re supposed to be fighting. Again, I’d wager that had Dr. King’s methodology prevailed over the last forty years or so we’d have a lot less racism than we have now, where it still exists to a much larger degree than any of us would like but has simply been driven underground…something which, curiously enough, the OP seems to favor. There isn’t a word in her OP that indicates a desire to find ways to change that type of thinking, only a desire to see it driven underground. Don’t you think it would be better to try to adopt behaviors that work to reduce racism rather than simply adopting the attitude that if you’re going to be a racist you’d damn well better not show it? ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/113 "2011-08-27T12:39:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To be honest, it’s a way of trying to get through. Sometimes people will resist polite attempts to question their motives, but if you hit them between the eyes with it, they may in time, once the resulting anger subsides, give a little thought to the subject and question, even if only to themselves, whether perhaps their adversary had a point. The OP strikes me as that kind of person. Still, it was probably a mistake to include that poster-specific comment in a post intended for a general audience, and I apologize to anyone else who may have been offended by it. This has to be a joke, given the rest of the poster’s whinge, I mean… surely no one could be _that_ oblivious… ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/114 "2011-08-27T14:34:23Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > This has to be a joke, given the rest of the poster’s whinge, I mean… surely no one could be _that_ oblivious… You have to understand. Liberals must always hold themselves to a higher standard and can not fight for their cause so thus can not attack in any form. If a conservative comes along and needs to fight for their cause they may ‘hit them between the eyes’. It all makes sense if the goal is to tie liberal’s hand’s behind their back and beat them senseless. If you were thinking SA is actually ever trying to offer constructive advice to liberal movements you’re out of your mind. He’s as disingenuous as they come. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/115 "2011-08-27T15:40:25Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > \ > I, and I think maybe most Americans, would disagree with your disagreement.\ Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement. 🙂 So Freedom of Speech is only for the government, not anyone else? Fire his ignorant ass then. He’s free to say what he wants (in the form of his bumper sticker), and he’s free to enjoy the consequences of it. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/116 "2011-08-27T16:16:57Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Correction: This is perfectly _legal_. It isn’t _fine_. I would disagree, but you are correct to point out the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/117 "2011-08-27T16:18:57Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement. 🙂 > > So Freedom of Speech is only for the government, not anyone else? Fire his ignorant ass then. He’s free to say what he wants (in the form of his bumper sticker), and he’s free to enjoy the consequences of it. Again, in the interests of clarification (I feel like I’m coming across as a know-it-all somehow, and I don’t mean to), freedom of speech is more accurately described as _from the government_; in other words, the government may not restrict your speech in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/118 "2011-08-27T17:12:42Z")
I’m sure, **SA** , that you were making a mistake when you conflated the actions of the guy who observed the bumper sticker with my own. A simple reading comprehension error, right? It wouldn’t be like you to jump to conclusions about someone. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/119 "2011-08-28T06:33:18Z")
Racism is a funny thing and certainly isn’t monolithic, no matter how badly people want to reduce it to simple black and white terms. And reaction to racism is certainly problematic and oftentimes is blind of any logic as a purely reactionary force. I know, I have sometimes found myself in the middle of the fray. One time, I found myself in the middle of a beatdown outside of a bar, protecting a mexican girl from a whole gang of black girls. They were beating the shit out of this girl for no apparent reason, other than she was different. The black bouncers just stood there and watched. I managed to get her out of the beating and kicking mob and hold them off… I’m sure she would have been seriously injured or possibly killed if I hadn’t been there. As a parting shot, after I had gotten her to safety, I used the “N word” for the first and last time in anger with an adrenal coursed, “Stupid Ni\*\*ers!” And still today, though I probably saved that girls life I still can’t help but feel a bit guilty about that puffed up last shot and apparently racist curse. Another time, I practically ruined a relationship with family members because I got in their face and wanted to fight because they were frankly being disgustingly racist about Mexicans. That almost blew up into fisticuffs, and although they were not right, neither was I, and I regret starting that fight. Recently, on this board, I used the term “jew down” which I am kind of torn about, because, it’s quite a part of my local language and has certainly lost any racist connotations it might once have had by its rather lighthearted use as a synonymn for “to bargain” and it’s “owned” usage. We also still call the Salvagers who come around on Garbage day, “The Sheenyman”. And all of that is part of our dialect which probably goes back quite far… and although I can see the argument as to why that might be racist to **other** people… well, to me it’s an innocent quirk of my language and culture, although, I really feel no hate for Jews or Blacks, or any people as a monolithic race. Language, intention, and character can be many different things, not always hate or bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167/120 "2011-08-28T08:19:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Neither King nor anyone else could have done a thing about racism if the American people as a whole weren’t sympathetic to the cause. The Montgomery Bus Boycott almost shut down the Montgomery public transportation division and threatened permanent dismissals of many employees from bus drivers to mechanics to civil servants and corporate execs (the Montgomery bus company was a hybrid of city employees and for-profit contractors) and others and had many ripple effects (e.g. downtown business that had formerly had many black customers had less as blacks shopped closer to home or did without since they couldn’t use the bus). While it did bring national attention to segregation it did NOT rely on the American people for tea and sympathy and effectiveness but was one of the most effective non-violent “by our own bootstraps” measures in U.S. history. Ultimately transportation officials and bus company executives came to the peace tables and gave in not because of outside P.R. but because they had a choice of “give in or go broke”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-think-that-people-are-decent/594167.md?page=7)