# Just when you thought the situation in Iraq couldn't get any more surreal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239 "2004-10-20T16:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/1 "2004-10-20T16:44:55Z")
The CIA wanted to hand out flags to Iraqis before the invasion so they could wave them in front of the world as they welcomed the American troops. [http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/195962\_iraq20.html](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/195962_iraq20.html) > [@](#): > > Intelligence officials were convinced that American soldiers would be greeted warmly when they pushed into southern Iraq, so a CIA operative suggested sneaking hundreds of small American flags into the country for grateful Iraqis to wave at their liberators. > > The agency would capture the spectacle on film and beam it throughout the Arab world. It would be the ultimate information operation. Seriously, what the FUCK? These are our intelligence gatherers, the eyes and ears of our military and government… And they thought this would be a good idea? Like the Iraqis needed MORE flags to burn? You’d be able to see the flames from space! Thank goodness the military brass saw this idea as the huge mistake that it was and nixed it. And this is the new, improved post 9/11 CIA we’re talking about. Unbelievable. EZ ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/2 "2004-10-20T16:49:46Z")
Most Iraqi’s were (and still are) happy to have Saddam be ousted by the Americans and allies. Remember the statue being taken down? It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/3 "2004-10-20T16:52:34Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most Iraqi’s were (and still are) happy to have Saddam be ousted by the Americans and allies. Remember the statue being taken down? It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. They’re happy to be rid of Saddam, but much less happy that the Americans didn’t get the water and power for months, nor that the Americans didn’t maintain law and order. Iraqis, by and large, want us out of their country. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/4 "2004-10-20T16:56:45Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. Wouldn’t it look just a _bit_ suspicious to see a crowd of just-post-Saddam Iraqis waving US flags? Where would any neutral observer suspect that those flags came from? Surely, they weren’t all hiding them in their basements during the Saddam regime, waiting for US troops to arrive. It would have been a PR disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/5 "2004-10-20T16:59:17Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most Iraqi’s were (and still are) happy to have Saddam be ousted by the Americans and allies. Remember the statue being taken down? It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. [_sigh_](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000562754) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/6 "2004-10-20T17:06:26Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most Iraqi’s were (and still are) happy to have Saddam be ousted by the Americans and allies. Remember the statue being taken down? It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. Yes, and I’ll be happy to be rid of George Bush the Lesses come January (as well as relieved that I don’t need to go to the trouble of pulling down any statues). That doesn’t mean I want an international bully to come in and remove him “for” me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/7 "2004-10-20T17:11:23Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Remember the statue being taken down? Yes, by _US_ troops, with just a couple of dozen bemused locals watching. You got taken in by the tight camera angle and cropping. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/8 "2004-10-20T17:15:29Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most Iraqi’s were (and still are) happy to have Saddam be ousted by the Americans and allies. Remember the statue being taken down? It seems to me that those people would have been happy to wave American Flags if they were available. I see that **TYM** has laready provided an article debunking this particular PR ploy. What amazes me is that there are still many people like **Debaser** who’ve apparently swallowed the agitprop whole. True Believers who march on unperturbed by those pesky facts. But in the off chance there’s still hope: [\*\*A tale of two photos](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm)\*\* > [@](#): > > If there is one thing this war has taught us all, it’s that we can’t believe what we’re told. For Donald Rumsfeld these were “breathtaking”. For the British Army they were “historic”. For BBC Radio they were “amazing”. > A wide angle shot in which you can see the whole of Fardus Square (conveniently located just opposite the Palestine Hotel where the international media are based), and the presence of at most around 200 people – most of them US troops (note the tanks and armored vehicles) and assembled journalists. > > \*\*The BBC website had the honesty to say that “dozens” of Iraqis were involved, but this grain of truth was swamped by the overwhelming impression of mass joy. The radio and TV were even worse. > > The masses are no doubt glad to see the back of Saddam Hussein, but was this a US Army propaganda coup.\*\*-- (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/9 "2004-10-20T17:20:00Z")
Not to mention the dumbass that draped a Stars and Stripes over Saddam’s head as he was being pulled over. “Hearts and minds”… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/10 "2004-10-20T17:35:07Z")
This may be bull and if so please tell me but there were reports that the flag used was one from the pentagon > [@](#): > > Marines say that the US flag draped over Saddam Hussein’s statue was the flag that was flying over the Pentagon on 11 September 2001. [BBC NEWS | Middle East | Eyewitness: Baghdad after Saddam](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2935641.stm) Oh yeah that was a real off the cuff event. No planning whatsoever on that one :rolleyes: I like this other bit from the same story though > [@](#): > > One of my close Iraqi friends went up to an American marine and said to him: “I’m going to exercise my right of free speech for the first time in my life - we want you out of here as soon as possible.” Pesky freedom 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/11 "2004-10-21T00:17:23Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > [_sigh_](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000562754) Heh. Heh. Heh. Suck on that. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/12 "2004-10-21T01:47:31Z")
Finally someone mentions that story. There have been times when I’ve wondered whether I’m the only person on the planet who knows the truth about the statue stunt. Of course it’s incorrect to say that the press was fooled. They participated in a campaign to misinform the American public. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/13 "2004-10-21T02:58:42Z")
Color me ignorant, but I’m having a hard time figuring out why the Army would want to go out of their way to deliberately create the false impression that the occupation of Iraq was more popular with the locals than it was or is. Was this propaganda intended to be aimed at Iraqis, or Western nations, or the troops themselves? Because it seems to me that creating a misleadingly rosy picture of conditions in Iraq could only turn around and harm the troops in the long run. It isn’t as though no one thought there would be American forces on the ground after the invasion. Why would they want to fool people into thinking that things were better than they actually were? I could perhaps see other government agencies doing this sort of thing, but what advantage would the Army itself get out of such a deception? “No, there are no enemies here, they all love us, send no additional forces, please,” …seriously, what the hell? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/14 "2004-10-21T06:21:39Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Color me ignorant, but I’m having a hard time figuring out why the Army would want to go out of their way to deliberately create the false impression that the occupation of Iraq was more popular with the locals than it was or is. Was this propaganda intended to be aimed at Iraqis, or Western nations, or the troops themselves? Why not “All of the above”? If nothing else, such a stunt would help to sell the war to (a) the American public (remember all those anti-war protesters marching in early 2003?) and (b) the non-coalition UN members. Troop morale building and happy Iraqis are nice things, but given all the resistance the administration got before the war, tearing down Saddam’s statue would be a great “We told ya so!” to them. > [@Terrifel](#): > > Because it seems to me that creating a misleadingly rosy picture of conditions in Iraq could only turn around and harm the troops in the long run. It isn’t as though no one thought there would be American forces on the ground after the invasion. Why would they want to fool people into thinking that things were better than they actually were? You’re working on the mistaken assumption that this Administration thinks that far ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/15 "2004-10-21T12:13:11Z")
> [@ElectricZ](#): > > The CIA wanted to hand out flags to Iraqis before the invasion so they could wave them in front of the world as they welcomed the American troops. I can’t see from an article published on a website if this is reliable information. Yet I would not be surprized one second if it was reflecting the truth. > [@](#): > > These are our intelligence gatherers, the eyes and ears of our military and government… And they thought this would be a good idea? You know, there is a popular joke that circulates already as long as I remember. Whenever something gets blown up with a lot of innocent victims while the obvious “target” is miles away, people say “this must be the CIA”. (Of course you then see a formerly completely unknown so called “Islamic terrorist gourp” claiming they did it. ) On the other hand, when something gets blown up whit eventually a lot of innocent victims but also the obvious “target” ending up dead, you know the CIA was far away and you can safely assume that it was the Mossad. (Occasionally the blame goes to a really existing group, but that has a deeper reason) The difference between both State Supported Terrorist Organisations is that the CIA acts from a background of what I call Western Post- colonial disease. Feelings of overall superiority feeded by overall arrogance which is the reason of the overall ignorance. You don’t see that mindset in the Mossad. They know extremely well what they are doing and who they deal with. To say it simple: The Mossad is the Rolex while the CIA is the worthless fake attempt to have a look-a-like. The mere fact alone that the US took what dissidents and enemies of the Iraqi regime said for reliable truth just like it came out of their mouths, gives already enough proof of what idiots they are. That nobody even wanted to give it a serious thought that Chalabi and the likes had everything to gain to have the US invading Iraq and hence where hardly trustworthy in their stories and “information” , would be good stuff for Comedy Capers, if the results weren’t so utterly tragic. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/16 "2004-10-21T12:22:39Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Color me ignorant… OK. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/17 "2004-10-21T12:24:21Z")
Sorry that was a bit harsh. But frankly a bit of reading about the history of almost any conflict you’d care to mention (I find the modern stuff easier to relate to personally) will show you that this is all SOP. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/18 "2004-10-21T13:50:08Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > You know, there is a popular joke that circulates already as long as I remember. Whenever something gets blown up with a lot of innocent victims while the obvious “target” is miles away, people say “this must be the CIA”. > (Of course you then see a formerly completely unknown so called “Islamic terrorist gourp” claiming they did it. ) > On the other hand, when something gets blown up whit eventually a lot of innocent victims but also the obvious “target” ending up dead, you know the CIA was far away and you can safely assume that it was the Mossad. > (Occasionally the blame goes to a really existing group, but that has a deeper reason) Very funny, Aldebaran. 🙂 Got a laugh out of me this morning. Sam ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/19 "2004-10-21T14:09:45Z")
One would think that they’d also want to hand out Polish flags too. Ya know… To show off the coalition. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239/20 "2004-10-21T14:16:40Z")
I’ve never heard of the “Editor and Publisher”. Is that a reputable news source? Checking Google, I see lots of hits for left wing sites and blogs talking about this PSYOP statue story, but nothing mainstream. I’m genuinly curious to see if this is true. If it is true, then it actually helps to prove my point. If the US military is capable of pulling off such a successful ruse, then my hat’s off to them. It proves the OP and others wrong who are suggesting that such a feat would not be possible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/just-when-you-thought-the-situation-in-iraq-couldnt-get-any-more-surreal/270239.md?page=2)