# Justice for murdered nine-year-old Arizona girl? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099 "2011-01-26T21:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/61 "2011-01-28T14:42:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, that is waaay off base, **jjimm**. No. It’s not the slightest bit off base. It’s what you **said** : > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Illegal immigrants and the crime that results from their being here - along with frustration born of no one doing absolutely nothing to stop it - is what’s causing the hatred and fear that exists. > > Fear and hatred is a common reaction to being victimized, and it’s a perfectly understandable and legitimate reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/62 "2011-01-28T14:45:45Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > That’s what I was avoiding doing. Why? The fact that a given analogy is overused or foolishly applied to cases where the comparison is clearly absurd is no reason not to employ in where it is, in fact, apropos. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/63 "2011-01-28T15:02:47Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > Which really just shows us that you’re a pointless little man whose main reason for existing on this board is because you love the sound of your own typing. To be fair to SA, being in love with the sound of one’s own typing is probably the impetus behind 90% of posts to this board. Even the posts by non-idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/64 "2011-01-28T15:54:40Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Why? The fact that a given analogy is overused or foolishly applied to cases where the comparison is clearly absurd is no reason not to employ in where it is, in fact, apropos. Sure it is. Like it or not, the comparison is a tainted one. Thanks to people using it so foolishly it’s largely a discredited accusation. Certainly, on terms of merit, that people use it wrongly is not a reason to assume wrong usage in all occasions, but communication isn’t solely substance. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/65 "2011-01-28T16:06:39Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > So WONT SOMEBADAY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!111!!! is OK when it’s poow opwessed brown people (_cries_) ? > > Ah, liberal drivel, always surprising me. You’re right. I prefer the new one of “won’t someone think of the poow liddle old white men who are victimized by having to interact with people who don’t look just like them” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/66 "2011-01-28T16:49:19Z")
Nope, in this case it’s spot on. When you have xenophobic violent propaganda inspiring thugs to violently enforce their racial hierarchy, supported in spirit by 20-30% of the population, you can’t really get any closer analogy-wise. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/67 "2011-01-29T17:48:33Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > So WONT SOMEBADAY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!111!!! is OK when it’s poow opwessed brown people (_cries_) ? > > Ah, liberal drivel, always surprising me. So assuming you’re not a coward talking shit you can’t back up. What’s your answer to the question? Do you break another country’s law or let your kid starve? Given your initial brainless response I figure you’ll be too stupid to give an actual answer. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/68 "2011-01-29T20:33:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If we built a high enough and sturdy enough wall and manned it properly and used ground penetrating technology to thwart tunnels, we could eliminate most of the drugs that come into this country and most of the illegal immigrants as well. If neither have a way to get into the country, there isn’t much point in anyone shooting anyone anymore, is there? Given my incredibly strong feelings on the subject, I’m not touching the rest of this thread with a ten foot pole. But I strongly believe the key to figuring out this immigration problem - however you view it - is to deal in the facts. The number of undocumented workers who are smuggled into the U.S. is vanishingly small compared to the number of people who come into the country on legal work VISAs and allow their documents to expire. So your proposed solution of increasing border security would not be effective at staunching illegal immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/69 "2011-01-29T21:11:24Z")
Wait? What!? You mean we’ve been letting brown people into the country? Legally? Why, why…_I NEVER_!!! I thought this was a racist country determined to keep as many brown people out as possible so their children will starve! I mean, that’s what you people have been saying all this time. So instead we’ve been letting so many in for so long that the visa (not VISA) overstayers have become a major part of the problem? Well, in that case I’m sure there are remedies for that as well. (And I’m equally sure that whatever remedies might be suggested will be met with fevered claims of racism by the ilk.) But, I’ve been fairly busy the last couple of days and haven’t had the time (nor patience) to return to this thread so I can’t elaborate more now. I’ll try to do so later and answer some of the so-ridiculous-as-to-strain-if-not-break-credulity things said about me and my comments upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/70 "2011-01-29T21:30:13Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Given my incredibly strong feelings on the subject, I’m not touching the rest of this thread with a ten foot pole. **olives** , as the OP, I rather wish you would. I’m pretty sure that whatever you have to offer would raise the thread’s average post quality and relevance at this point. But I understand if you decline. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/71 "2011-01-29T21:53:08Z")
An addendum: By “you people” I wasn’t necessarily talking about you, **olives** , as I don’t recall you as being one of those for whom the mere mention of illegal immigration as a problem automatically equates to racism. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/72 "2011-01-30T00:48:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > An addendum: By “you people” I wasn’t necessarily talking about you, **olives** , as I don’t recall you as being one of those for whom the mere mention of illegal immigration as a problem automatically equates to racism. No, I think it’s much more complex than that. I have studied the issue long enough to know it’s a real problem and there are no easy solutions. I do think that the rhetoric often used by opponents to illegal immigration often harmfully conflates skeevy drug-lord illegal immigrants with people who are just trying to survive economically. I do not live in Arizona - I’m currently taking an Immigration Law and Policy class and I’m hoping we cover Arizona in more depth, because I understand it’s a whole different world down there than it is in the Midwest and Northeast. But I see that kind of rhetoric all over the country - and feel it is misleading. Most people in this country who are not legal residents are living in extreme poverty under oppressive working conditions with no acces to health care, traumatized by the experience of leaving the country they love, breaking their backs just so their families can survive. They are such a far cry from this dangerous illegal alien stereotype that it’s difficult to take that kind of fear-mongering seriously. I believe when we discuss these matters a clear distinction should be made between the ‘‘violent criminal’’ and the ‘‘day laborer.’’ ETA - regarding the ‘‘driving while brown’’ comment, I don’t believe the Law has a racist intent necessarily, but it will certainly have racial implications. I’m no constitutional law scholar but it seems like a recipe for racial profiling to me. ---
**Author:** ![may\_be\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@may\_be\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/may_be_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/73 "2011-01-30T01:36:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > SA: What part of the constitution says we have to keep Mexicans out? You’re an idiot ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/74 "2011-01-30T04:17:31Z")
Is that in the preamble? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/75 "2011-02-23T01:14:01Z")
To return to the OP topic: [http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/22/20110222arizona-border-activist-forde-death-penalty.html](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/22/20110222arizona-border-activist-forde-death-penalty.html) > [@](#): > > The Pima County Attorney’s Office said Tuesday the Tucson jury returned the death penalty verdict against 43-year-old Shawna Forde. She now becomes the third woman on Arizona’s death row. I suppose that’s justice. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/76 "2011-02-23T01:39:19Z")
There is only one exception I make to my general opposition to the death penalty, and that is when the crime includes elements of ethnic cleansing or genocide. I think the perpetrators fit this, of course it was very unlikely that they would had made their dreams of funding their little kingdom of hate work, but it is the action taken towards that irrational goal that counts. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/77 "2011-02-23T02:10:51Z")
…And in other embarrassing news about my home state, the legislators are hard at work creating an [Official State Gun](http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/02/arizona_legislators_want_offic.php). 😕:smack::mad: ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099/78 "2011-02-23T02:45:49Z")
I must admit, that was quicker than I thought it would be. Of course that’s just the first trial. Jason Bush, the man who (allegedly) shot Brisenia and her family on Forde’s instructions, and another (alleged) accomplice in the scheme, Albert Robert Gaxiola, have trials coming up in March and June respectively. And Forde’s death penalty gets automatically appealed. [By the way](http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/22/arizona.double.killing/?hpt=T2), > [@CNN](#): > > The child and her father were American-born U.S. citizens… Not “illegals.” If that’s important to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-for-murdered-nine-year-old-arizona-girl/569099.md?page=3)