# Justice Kennedy retiring **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857 "2018-06-27T18:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/41 "2018-06-27T20:42:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or McCain. I don’t know if McCain’s coming back to DC. He’s doing the country the service of impeding GOP goals simply by occupying his Senate seat without showing up to vote very often at this point, though. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/42 "2018-06-27T20:54:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I understand the issue thoroughly. You say IOKIADDI and I don’t. > > I considered producing the cites where Obama and Biden suggested it, but that’s not really necessary - it’s true whether you believe it or not. > I guess we will see about that.One can hope. 7-2 on the side of the Constitution instead of only 6-3 - be still, my heart. > > Regards, > Shodan Just curious— is it Sotomayor, Kagan, or Breyer that you envision marching in lockstep with the conservative Justices, in this scenario? On preview: ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/43 "2018-06-27T21:05:06Z")
I have my doubts that Trump will be able to get another nominee confirmed before the midterms, even if he only needs 50 votes (plus the presumed Pence tiebreaker). I particularly doubt McCain is going to drag himself out of a sickbed to help him out. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/44 "2018-06-27T21:15:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree at all with your assessment I think Gorsuch has done a fine job, and I suspect when you say “better,” you simply mean “more likely to deliver results I want.” > > In contrast, I mean “More likely to delivers results derived from the text of the canon being applied.” Which means exactly the same thing. That’s the point of textualism. It allows you to pretend that conservative principles are the only valid means of interpreting law. There is a reason why only conservative justices adhere to it, since it leads to conservative outcomes. It’s Biblical literalism made into a legal concept. And, just like Biblical literalism, it exists to enshrine conservative, anti-modernist values into the codex. Just like Biblical literalism, it is an entirely new way of interpreting law, and thus contradicts its own existence. But you don’t care. Despite being Catholic and rejecting Biblical literalism, you embrace the legal version because it gives you the outcomes you want, while also allowing to absolve yourself of having made any judgement. You’re just following what the law says. And, of course, you’ll never see or respond to this, because I dare challenge your deceitfulness at the base level, and it’s better strategy to ignore me, since you can’t prove it wrong. Hell, you’ve said as much that you don’t argue morality. The only reason for that is that you don’t think you can make a good moral case. Because morals do not drive you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/45 "2018-06-27T21:26:20Z")
Oh, and I assume **Shodan** said some stuff. I wouldn’t know. Guy crossed the line a little while back, and his occasional funny quips were no longer worth putting up with him. I discovered that we get more intelligent conversation if we just ignore what he has to say, as he’ll just snark from the kiddie table. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/46 "2018-06-27T21:34:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Which means exactly the same thing. That’s the point of textualism. It allows you to pretend that conservative principles are the only valid means of interpreting law. There is a reason why only conservative justices adhere to it, since it leads to conservative outcomes. > > It’s Biblical literalism made into a legal concept. And, just like Biblical literalism, it exists to enshrine conservative, anti-modernist values into the codex. Just like Biblical literalism, it is an entirely new way of interpreting law, and thus contradicts its own existence. > > But you don’t care. Despite being Catholic and rejecting Biblical literalism, you embrace the legal version because it gives you the outcomes you want, while also allowing to absolve yourself of having made any judgement. You’re just following what the law says. There’s no point in having laws if they don’t mean what they say. And as **Bricker** points out, changing the law is the legislature’s job, not the judiciary’s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/47 "2018-06-27T21:58:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have my doubts that Trump will be able to get another nominee confirmed before the midterms, even if he only needs 50 votes (plus the presumed Pence tiebreaker). I particularly doubt McCain is going to drag himself out of a sickbed to help him out. Yeah, no reason to take a chance on the Senate flipping. This will get done by September, is my guess. But the great thing is that this is the catalysts for everyone who wants to, once again, debate what judicial activism means, which side does it more, and re-litigate all the contentious court decisions with the same people that they’ve done so several times before over in the GD thread. And here, too!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/48 "2018-06-27T22:00:54Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Justice Gorsuch is a hack. I have no doubt he knows the law a million times better than I do, but I do not believe he cares about applying it honestly as Kennedy and Roberts do. He has no core principles. I think he has and will rule consistently as “his side” wants him to rule - that he starts with the ruling he will make and finds a way to fig leaf it with the law, instead of following the law as he sees it to the correct ruling. When he rules “against me,” my thought is, “well, perhaps the law was on my side and perhaps it wasn’t, but Neil Gorsuch doesn’t give a shit either way as long as he pleases the guy who hired him.” Can you explain _Sessions v. Dimaya_, then? Or in the alternative, identify any specific case in which you feel the text of the law clearly mandated one result but Gorsuch voted in contravention thereto? > [@](#): > > Or, as a better writer sort of put it: > > I’ve never agreed with Kennedy once. > We have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. > But when all is said and all is done > Kennedy has beliefs. > Gorsuch has none. Well, I’ll be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/49 "2018-06-27T22:03:51Z")
I’m feeling a deep existential dread I haven’t felt since November 2016. On the good side I’m straight, white, relatively well off with health insurance through my employer, so I’ll probably be ok. On the bad side I have a sense of empathy and compassion for the vulnerable among us, so my emotional well being will still be affected. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/50 "2018-06-27T22:08:35Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > McConnell waited until after the \*presidential \*election, on the assumption that the winner gets to choose the SCOTUS nominee. I don’t think the logic applies to the mid-terms. McConnell’s own words at the time (2016) contain NO qualifiers: it’s the fact that an election is coming up, and _nothing to do with it being a Presidential one_, that matters: > [@](#): > > Leader McConnell > ✔ > @SenateMajLdr > The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. #Scalia [Senator Mitch McConnell](https://www.facebook.com/mitchmcconnell/posts/1021148581257166) … > > 8:35 PM - Feb 13, 2016 > [@](#): > > Leader McConnell > ✔ > @SenateMajLdr > At the @WhiteHouse today, @ChuckGrassley and I will reiterate that the American people will have a voice in filling the #SCOTUS vacancy. > > 11:34 AM - Mar 1, 2016 > [@](#): > > Leader McConnell > ✔ > @SenateMajLdr > .@VP - "once the political season is under way…action on a Supreme Court nom. must be put off until after the election campaign is over.” > > 4:28 PM - Mar 2, 2016 > [@](#): > > Leader McConnell > ✔ > @SenateMajLdr > The next justice could dramatically change the direction of #SCOTUS for decades. The American people deserve a voice in that conversation. > > 10:04 AM - Mar 15, 2016 Again and again and again and again: ‘the political season is underway,’ and ‘the American people deserve a voice.’ No mention whatsoever of a Presidential election. > **[5 Mitch McConnell tweets about Supreme Court vacancies that are very awkward now](https://thinkprogress.org/mcconnell-awkward-tweets-about-scotus-vacancies-garland-trump-17b6c163f0a2/)** > > "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice." ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/51 "2018-06-27T22:11:43Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m feeling a deep existential dread I haven’t felt since November 2016. On the good side I’m straight, white, relatively well off with health insurance through my employer, so I’ll probably be ok. On the bad side I have a sense of empathy and compassion for the vulnerable among us, so my emotional well being will still be affected. Justice Scaramucci probably won’t order the first round-up of the vulnerable until early next year, so relax. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/52 "2018-06-27T22:13:05Z")
I can’t say I’m proud to be Canadian because being born in a civilized country isn’t really an accomplishment on my part. But holy shit am I glad to be Canadian right now. I’m sorry, decent Americans. You don’t deserve to suffer for the sake of fucks like Hurricane Ditka and Richard Spencer. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/53 "2018-06-27T22:13:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Justice Scaramucci probably won’t order the first round-up of the vulnerable until early next year, so relax. But if it’s Roy Moore instead, watch out. (And keep your daughters hidden.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/54 "2018-06-27T22:20:35Z")
I think people are overreacting. Yes, Kennedy was a moderate, but he wrote the majority opinion that murdered American democracy in the Citizens United case, so let’s not get carried away here. He gave himself a retirement party by severely weakening labor unions. Not that I actually disagree with the actual decision in this actual case – in theory, I don’t think employees who choose not to participate in unions should be required to support them. It wouldn’t be problematic in my mind if the law of the land didn’t equate billionaires using money to rig elections and calling it “speech” – but that he sure did. So let’s not weep at the departure of Justice Kennedy. It’s overdue, frankly. I actually think this could be a blessing in disguise. We’re one step closer to forcing the average American to see just how badly their democracy has been corrupted, and compelling a political tidal wave. I don’t worry about losing Kennedy’s “voice of reason”. We’re no longer living in an age of reason. We’re living in an age of a clash between the billionaire class and ordinary people. Justice Kennedy may have hosed the American worker on his way out, but teachers in West Virginia and Oklahoma showed us how to respond. Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez showed us how to respond. Stop crying. **Get ready to fight.** ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/55 "2018-06-27T22:25:41Z")
Roe vs Wade is the next possible target maybe. Or whatever one says you can’t persecute non-“Christians”. … Christian my ASS. This is a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/56 "2018-06-27T22:29:16Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > God, you’re a repulsive, disgusting piece of shit. You took the words right out or my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/57 "2018-06-27T22:31:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > This is a disaster. I don’t agree. Roe v Wade should be overturned: the Constitution should not be read to protect first-trimester abortions. This is wholly apart from a discussion on whether or not wise social policy mandates protecting a right to first-trimester abortions. The claim that _the Constitution_ protects them is flawed, in my view, and needs to go. More generally, judges that rule based on that framework – “what does it say?” as opposed to “what’s best for the country?” – are, in my opinion, what’s best forthe country. I expect the President will appoint such a judge. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/58 "2018-06-27T22:47:33Z")
I bet the next nominee makes Gorsuch look moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/59 "2018-06-27T23:04:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. Roe v Wade should be overturned: the Constitution should not be read to protect first-trimester abortions. This is wholly apart from a discussion on whether or not wise social policy mandates protecting a right to first-trimester abortions. The claim that _the Constitution_ protects them is flawed, in my view, and needs to go. > > More generally, judges that rule based on that framework – “what does it say?” as opposed to “what’s best for the country?” – are, in my opinion, what’s best forthe country. I expect the President will appoint such a judge. Tell me **Bricker** , while you seem to be so concerned about the welfare of the embryo, do you give two shits about the welfare of the mother? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/60 "2018-06-27T23:10:41Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Tell me **Bricker** , while you seem to be so concerned about the welfare of the embryo, do you give two shits about the welfare of the mother? What does that have to do with what he posted? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857.md?page=4)