# Justice Kennedy retiring **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857 "2018-06-27T18:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/141 "2018-06-28T15:12:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I am at a loss to explain how you think he decided on Gorsuch if not from someone else’s advice. As far as I can tell Tramp does not have a lot of Tenth Circuit judges in his social circle. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Gorsuch was right off a list and I suspect the next one will be too. I certainly can be wrong, but Gorsuch happened back when he occasionally took advice. When he still had advisors. [Before he fired them or they quit.](https://variety.com/gallery/everyone-fired-by-trump-quit-white-house/) Before he started feeling his oats as president and noticed that he could do whatever the fuck he wanted to. We’ll see though, won’t we? I don’t have any booze riding on this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/142 "2018-06-28T15:23:26Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > You’re disgusting! People’s live could hang in the balance of the decision, at least, the rights to control their lives, and you’re debating which size of bottle of booze you’re going to bet. Come out of your gilded tower, you insensitive fuck. > > You’re Randolph and Mortimer Duke, betting a dollar that they can ruin a man’s life. I don’t agree. Randolph and Mortimer were directly responsible for the ruination of Winthorp’s life: they hired Beeks to plant the drugs, bribe the intake cops, and bribe Ophelia to pretend, in front of Penelope that Winthrop was a drug dealer. Here, we are essentially powerless observers. Trump won’t take my phone calls. Moreover, I, at least, don’t agree that ruination of lives is even in the cards. I _want_ the kind of the judge I think Trump is likely to appoint. Any one of the choices on his list would be positive, in my view. Why would you possibly imagine I would adopt your unsupported view that this amounts to ruination, and thus feel some moral opprobrium about wagering on the result? This critique suggests you believe that I have to feel as you do. I don’t. (NB: If it should happen that **ThelmaLou** is right, and Kim Kardashian returns to the White House to accept Trump’s nomination, I will of course readily acknowledge error – but I regard the chance of a reality TV star of any stripe being chosen as infinitesimal). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/143 "2018-06-28T15:28:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Justice Kennedy’s departure now forces progressives to confront reality: the only way to stop this right wing putsch on America is to overwhelm them at the ballot box. No more half-ass participating in elections and expecting lawyers and judges to save our asses. Democracy doesn’t work that way. I don’t share the progressive agenda, of course, but I completely endorse the sentiment above. We have the gift of representative democracy. We are self-governing. We steer our own course by the ballot box. That’s EXACTLY how our representative democracy works. Hear, hear. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/144 "2018-06-28T15:36:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. Randolph and Mortimer were directly responsible for the ruination of Winthorp’s life: they hired Beeks to plant the drugs, bribe the intake cops, and bribe Ophelia to pretend, in front of Penelope that Winthrop was a drug dealer. > > Here, we are essentially powerless observers. Trump won’t take my phone calls. > > Moreover, I, at least, don’t agree that ruination of lives is even in the cards. I _want_ the kind of the judge I think Trump is likely to appoint. Any one of the choices on his list would be positive, in my view. > > Why would you possibly imagine I would adopt your unsupported view that this amounts to ruination, and thus feel some moral opprobrium about wagering on the result? > > This critique suggests you believe that I have to feel as you do. I don’t. (NB: If it should happen that **ThelmaLou** is right, and Kim Kardashian returns to the White House to accept Trump’s nomination, I will of course readily acknowledge error – but I regard the chance of a reality TV star of any stripe being chosen as infinitesimal). You use a lot of words, but you’re not saying anything to refute my point. Gay people may have their rights curtailed. Women’s rights to choose may be removed. These are not abstractions! These are real people. Yes, I would hope you’d feel like I do, that damaging people’s freedom is a bad thing. That’s basic human decency. Not a booze bet over whose lives get to be screwed over worse. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/145 "2018-06-28T15:42:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You certainly cannot be blamed for generalizing Trump’s flailing in most areas and predicting similar flailing. > > Except – I know that Trump’s judicial nominees have been largely excellent. Not, I agree, because of Trump’s wise and thoughtful approach. But because (apparently accidentally) this seems to be an area he’s listened to prudent guidance from people who are wise and thoughtful. > > It hasn’t been 100%, of course. [Matthew Peterson](https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/sen-kennedy-matthew-petersen-white-house-pull-down-nomination-erin-burnett-outfront-cnntv/index.html) is a good example of an unqualified Trump nominee. > > But on the whole, in this area I think Trump’s record is very good. And based on that historical record, I made my prediction. No. Many of Trump’s attempted appointees to various courts so far have been a travesty. Unprepared and unqualified, except i ONE way… they were ideologues. Example: > **[Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate...](https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.html)** > > Brett J. Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was **unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn**.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a **degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee** , denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn. On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench. > **[Poor Vetting Sinks Trump’s Nominees for Federal Judge (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/us/politics/matthew-petersen-judge-nominee-withdraws-trump.html)** > > In recent days, three nominees have withdrawn from consideration, including one who failed to answer basic courtroom questions in his confirmation hearing. Poor Vetting Sinks Trump’s Nominees for Federal Judge One of President Trump’s federal judge nominees has withdrawn after he was **unable to answer basic questions** during his confirmation hearing about the courtroom process, showed little familiarity with federal trial rules and acknowledged that he had never prosecuted or defended a case. A clip of the exchange between the nominee, Matthew Petersen, and Senator John N. Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, became a viral sensation and drew ridicule across the internet. Mr. Petersen’s withdrawal over the weekend was the\*\* third nomination by Mr. Trump to collapse in recent days\*\*. Last week, the White House pulled back two other Federal District Court nominees who had attracted controversy, Jeff Mateer and Brett Talley. Mr. Talley also had scant trial experience and apparently **defended the early Ku Klux Klan under a pseudonym on a sports website**. Mr. Mateer once described transgender children as **proof of “Satan’s plan.”** As for Gorsuch, **fuck him and the horse he rode in on**. he wrote that disgusting “decision” saying a man should be expected to freeze to death in a busted truck, rather than try to stay alive. And be fired if he chooses to live. THAT is what his “ruling” raelly said. Fuck that rat bastard. So don’t try to bullshit me with any “Trump best judge chooser ever” crap. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/146 "2018-06-28T15:46:48Z")
And another thing. This “president” and everyone around him is under investigation. For damn near everything possible. He should NOT get to pick the judges. What the fuck. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/147 "2018-06-28T15:59:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I certainly can be wrong, but Gorsuch happened back when he occasionally took advice. When he still had advisors. [Before he fired them or they quit.](https://variety.com/gallery/everyone-fired-by-trump-quit-white-house/) Before he started feeling his oats as president and noticed that he could do whatever the fuck he wanted to. We’ll see though, won’t we? I don’t have any booze riding on this. You are being very silly. Trump published his Supreme picks short list, which included Gorsuch, during his election campaign that included plenty of firings and quittings. He knows this is the one carrot that will keep the establishment Rs from messing with him too much. If he picked Honey Boo boo, they might have actually got off their ass and fought him on his silly trade war, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/148 "2018-06-28T16:08:42Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No. Many of Trump’s attempted appointees to various courts so far have been a travesty. Unprepared and unqualified, except i ONE way… they were ideologues. > > Example: > [Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.html) > Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel > > Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was **unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn**.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a **degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee** , denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn. > On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench. > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/us/politics/matthew-petersen-judge-nominee-withdraws-trump.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/us/politics/matthew-petersen-judge-nominee-withdraws-trump.html) > Poor Vetting Sinks Trump’s Nominees for Federal Judge > One of President Trump’s federal judge nominees has withdrawn after he was **unable to answer basic questions** during his confirmation hearing about the courtroom process, showed little familiarity with federal trial rules and acknowledged that he had never prosecuted or defended a case. > A clip of the exchange between the nominee, Matthew Petersen, and Senator John N. Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, became a viral sensation and drew ridicule across the internet. > Mr. Petersen’s withdrawal over the weekend was the\*\* third nomination by Mr. Trump to collapse in recent days\*\*. Last week, the White House pulled back two other Federal District Court nominees who had attracted controversy, Jeff Mateer and Brett Talley. Mr. Talley also had scant trial experience and apparently **defended the early Ku Klux Klan under a pseudonym on a sports website**. Mr. Mateer once described transgender children as **proof of “Satan’s plan.”** > As for Gorsuch, **fuck him and the horse he rode in on**. he wrote that disgusting “decision” saying a man should be expected to freeze to death in a busted truck, rather than try to stay alive. And be fired if he chooses to live. THAT is what his “ruling” raelly said. Fuck that rat bastard. > > So don’t try to bullshit me with any “Trump best judge chooser ever” crap. Can we distinguish between, “He’s unqualified for objective, measurable reasons,” and “He’s unqualified because I strongly disagree with his judicial philosophy?” See, you look at a ruling and decide “what it really said,” without care for understanding what the law it was applying really says. You want a judge to approach a situation like the broken truck one and write an opinion that says, “No matter what the law’s words are, making a guy choose between getting fired and a risk of freezing to death is just wrong!” True? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/149 "2018-06-28T16:11:59Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And another thing. This “president” and everyone around him is under investigation. For damn near everything possible. He should NOT get to pick the judges. What the fuck. The Constitution has words. Those words mean things. The words do not say, “Hey, if the president is under investigation, all bets are off.” It does say that Congress can impeach for pretty much any reason they like. But it seems that Congress doesn’t share your opinion. We live in a representative democracy. Why do you think your rules should trump (ha!) the actual written ones? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/150 "2018-06-28T16:13:39Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > You use a lot of words, but you’re not saying anything to refute my point. Gay people may have their rights curtailed. Women’s rights to choose may be removed. These are not abstractions! These are real people. > > Yes, I would hope you’d feel like I do, that damaging people’s freedom is a bad thing. That’s basic human decency. Not a booze bet over whose lives get to be screwed over worse. I feel that we have a system for enacting new law. And the Supreme Court should not be the source of new law, and I feel that this is a more important principle than any specific law they enact, even if it’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/151 "2018-06-28T16:18:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You are being very silly. Hey! Who you callin’ silly? :mad: I never joke around. Okay, I sometimes joke around. > [@](#): > > Trump published his Supreme picks short list, which included Gorsuch, during his election campaign that included plenty of firings and quittings. He knows this is the one carrot that will keep the establishment Rs from messing with him too much. And he ALWAYS sticks to what he says he’s going to do. If he published a list and said he’d pick from that, then, by cracky, he’ll goddamm do it! This is a man who always does what he says he’s going to do, right? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > If he picked Honey Boo boo, they might have actually got off their ass and fought him on his silly trade war, I suspect. No, a crate of dynamite couldn’t get those bozos off their asses. He feeds them shit and they gobble it down like it’s buttered toast. I am fooling around a bit, but I want to emphasize thump’s unpredictability and the sheer folly of expecting him to act like a normal person, let alone a normal president, ever. In any circumstances. There’s only one thing you can expect from him: the unexpected. I pronounce this horse dead. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/152 "2018-06-28T16:37:04Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Republicans do not want this. You are seeing this through a fish-eye lens of your selected media exposure. We want a level playing field for all instead of installing some artificial handicap and telling the poor, muslim, disabled, gay or minority population that they are not good enough and need help because their enemies that are white, straight males through no choice of their own are oppressing them to get ahead instead of working with the merit system as intended. Ah, so you are in favor of complete normalization of gay relationships and down-to-bedrock reform of the criminal justice system so all defendants of all races can be treated equally by the police and judges? Glad to hear! > [@Shodan](#): > > This counts as a wail of anguish - thanks. > > Regards, > Shodan This sentiment seems a bit gauche to me; kinda like enjoying the crying of traumatized toddlers on the news because it upsets liberals. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/153 "2018-06-28T17:32:27Z")
The people have the right to flip the country upside down and turn it inside out. We, the people, have the right to turn ourselves into a total autocracy, if such is our choice. What would be required for that? Seems to me, a landslide of popular support would be essential, without it, any such power would be illegitimate. Am I wrong about that? But Trump does not have that, unless anyone here believes that horseshit about five million illegal voters. Even then, it would be be a bare majority of the voters, not really in “landslide” territory, not even close to a massive popular majority. Where’s the mandate in losing the popular vote? Well, we are told, this time we will turn out our voters, this time we will get more of our voters to the polls. OK, but what if you already did? Any reason to believe that you haven’t already gotten your maximum result? Who are you planning on getting that you didn’t already have? You are a minority claiming the just powers of a majority. And not just a plurality, but a huge hulking massive majority. If you are claiming the right to turn the country inside out, shouldn’t you have that already? And if you don’t, well, then, who are you? By what right do you rule? Not “power to the people”, you clearly deny that. Not “majority rules”, you don’t have the majority. So, God, then? Is that it, God has decided that you should rule? Well, OK, howcum He didn’t give you that solid landslide you need? Hedging His bets? Didja notice that Trump doesn’t talk much about his anti-choice inclinations? Do you wonder why? Why he isn’t he throwing that out as red meat for his pep rallies? Well, now that Kennedy has bailed, its put up or shut up time, isn’t it? You think nominating someone who wants to make reproductive choice illegal will help him win over the soft guys with the wobbly bits? Good. You keep thinking, Butch, that’s what you’re good at. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/154 "2018-06-28T17:39:29Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Ah, so you are in favor of complete normalization of gay relationships and down-to-bedrock reform of the criminal justice system so all defendants of all races can be treated equally by the police and judges? Glad to hear! > > This sentiment seems a bit gauche to me; kinda like enjoying the crying of traumatized toddlers on the news because it upsets liberals. The liberals being upset about our administration traumatizing children is just a bonus in his eyes. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/155 "2018-06-28T17:52:30Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > If the Court issues an obviously bullshit decision against a signature Democratic item - think declaring Medicare-for-All unconstitutional, or siding with the administration in the most recent bullshit ACA lawsuit from Texas et al - then it will basically be a foregone conclusion that the Dems _will_ add more SCOTUS seats the next time they control the government… Put your money where your mouth is? Six-pack of any cheap beer? I notice someone recently started a thread about an _Orchiectomy_. I didn’t click but I assume the surgical target was _not_ the Democratic Party — its testicles are long gone. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/156 "2018-06-28T18:28:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why do you suppose that is? From the same post: > [@](#): > > Mostly for the same reason that journalists are mostly left leaning. Intelligent thoughtful people tend to lean left, its not universal but more of them lean left than right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/157 "2018-06-28T18:39:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By what right do you rule? Not “power to the people”, you clearly deny that. Not “majority rules”, you don’t have the majority. Amendment XII: > [@](#): > > The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President-The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. I know of no legal provision that specifies a President elected with a landslide has additional powers under the Constitution. What right places Trump in the White House? He was “The person having the greatest Number of votes for President,” in the electoral college. There you go! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/158 "2018-06-28T18:40:08Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Define “merit”. I am the white male son of a small-town lawyer. I started life well ahead of most non-white and non-males. Not my fault, but also I did nothing to ‘merit’ it. “Life as a video game and I get to play on the ‘easy’ setting” is an apt analogy. > > How would you suggest dealing with this? And it is a society thing: there are undoubtedly poor latina girls who, given my opportunities and intelligence would have made much of more of both of them, and made the world a better place than I did. > > In my mind, that is what affirmative action is attempting. Sure, people will take advantage of it (people being people), but the question is, on the whole, does it make the world better? Sure, the notion of meritocracy assumes that everyone stats at the same starting line but affirmative action does care where you start, only where you end up. The vast majority of blacks admitted to ivy leagues under affirmative action are not the poor descendants of slaves. As long as they can say they are 10% black, they don’t really care where those black applicants started out in life. On the other hand it has pushed schools to focus on diversity and this has led to discrimination against Asians. Some Asians do not think this makes the world a “better” . So perhaps more important than defining merit would be to define “better” If we can’t agree on the goal, its pointless to debate the means of accomplishing that goal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/159 "2018-06-28T18:40:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > This sentiment seems a bit gauche to me; kinda like enjoying the crying of traumatized toddlers on the news because it upsets liberals. > [@Voltaire](#): > > I never made but one prayer in my life - “Lord, make my enemies ridiculous”. And He granted it. Besides, in this case the traumatized toddlers **are** the liberals. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857/160 "2018-06-28T18:53:22Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I’ve never met another Republican who was against a social safety net, this is due to people always deserving second or perhaps third chances. Really? I wonder. But no, you probably never met teenage me. > [@](#): > > This also is not to say that it’s the best approach at times, but trying to save everyone and please everyone is a dream, it will never come to fruition. I agree with this, as would many, many liberals. > [@](#): > > There will always be caste systems in varying interpretations and there will always exist innate features of human beings such as selfishness that exist and the Republican way is to promote individualism and a self-sustaining lifestyle without dependence on others. If one chooses to view that as selfish, is up for debate. If everything else crumbles away you still have what you made of yourself, your wealth, your intelligence and your own safety instead of relying on others. In a caste system? To this day I don’t understand how people who live in a society with international supply chains and a wide variety of obscure chemical technology from steels to housepaints can be “self-reliant.” > [@](#): > > The merit system reinforces these values and makes every individual strong instead of only making them strong in a group. You know that you live in a society with specialization and division of labor, right? > [@](#): > > I personally think the tug-of-war between the left and right wings lets progress and redefinition of the U.S. come at a steady pace where it can be comfortable. Not too fast, and not to slow. A pulling to and fro of utilitarianism and hedonism. Do you mean a tug-of-war between utilitarianism and hedonism? What do those words mean to you? > [@](#): > > I personally just prefer to keep with the tried and true method of human nature where everything in life is earned by skill and merit. My education in biology and in economics tells me that skill and merit are in fact not where the things that sustain us come from. Skill may help us access things we need, but really life-forms go where there are resources to sustain us, and human beings, like algae or mold, may end up taking whatever path is easy enough for us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-kennedy-retiring/816857.md?page=9)