# Justice League vs. Watchmen - Who would win? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535 "2009-08-06T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/1 "2009-08-06T16:07:48Z")
I just saw Watchmen last night and it got me thinking about this. On the one hand most members of the Justice League have genuine superpowers. On the other hand the Watchmen have a godlike being capable of vaporizing matter just by looking at it. They also have a couple of people who appear to be mentally unstable and aren’t afraid to fight dirty. I’d be inclined to give this one to the Watchmen simply because of Dr. Manhattan. What are your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/2 "2009-08-06T16:10:45Z")
Justice League, because they are an actual team who, you know, work together. I cannot picture Jon giving enough of a damn to do \*anything \*during a spandex smack-down. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/3 "2009-08-06T16:10:54Z")
I saw watchmen recently. I’ve never seen Justice League (what is it?) but ‘Awesome’ is a superpower and the Watchmen have lots of different kinds of it. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/4 "2009-08-06T16:12:31Z")
Which Justice League/ Oh well, they’d win anyway, but they’d know they’d been in a fight. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/5 "2009-08-06T16:24:08Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > **Which Justice League/** > > Oh well, they’d win anyway, but they’d know they’d been in a fight. Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/6 "2009-08-06T16:25:17Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > On the other hand the Watchmen have a godlike being capable of vaporizing matter just by looking at it. Batman is prepared for that. Besides, Green Lantern can also be that powerful, given the will. JLA in the 2nd round - knockout. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/7 "2009-08-06T16:35:14Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > I’ve never seen Justice League (what is it?) > **[Justice League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_league)** > > The Justice League, or Justice League of America (JLA), are a group of superheroes appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. The team first appeared in The Brave and the Bold #28 (March 1960). Writer Gardner Fox conceived the team as a revival of the Justice Society of America, a similar team from DC Comics from the 1940s which had been pulled out of print due to a decline in sales. The Justice League is an all-star ensemble cast of established superhero characters from DC Comic... Typically it’s Superman, Wonderwoman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter, with a bunch of other guys thrown in to sell tie-in comics. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/8 "2009-08-06T16:54:19Z")
Rorshach, the Comedian, and Dr. Manhattan kill people on numerous occasions. I doubt the Justice League would do that (although Rorshach probably wouldn’t kill any members of the Justice League, as he only seems to kill people whom he believes deserve it). However, with the exception of Dr. Manhattan, the Watchmen (or Minutemen, if you’re going by the comic book) have no superpowers. So basically, we have a group of unstable mass murderers going up against a group of just heroes with superpowers. Frankly, I think this battle is going to end the same way _Watchmen_ did- with a good portion of a major city destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/9 "2009-08-06T17:05:29Z")
If (and this is a _huge_ if) you can convince Dr. Manhattan that defeating the Justice League is important enough to warrant his attention, the Watchmen win. Instantly. Otherwise, Rorschach et al. are ground into a fine paste by Superman alone. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/10 "2009-08-06T17:11:45Z")
It depends on which version of Justice League, but the Justice _Society clearly mops the floor with the Minutemen. The Spectre is involved, so Dr. Manhattan is toast. The Spectre starts_ with Dr. Manhattan’s powers and adds from there. And Dr. Fate would be available if the Spectre isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/11 "2009-08-06T18:07:22Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It depends on which version of Justice League, but the Justice _Society clearly mops the floor with the Minutemen. The Spectre is involved, so Dr. Manhattan is toast. The Spectre starts_ with Dr. Manhattan’s powers and adds from there. And Dr. Fate would be available if the Spectre isn’t. I wonder if this is a case of an immovable object meeting an unstoppable force. While Dr. Manhattan is not portrayed as omnipotent he does seem effectively immortal. Saint of Killers would easily waste The Spectre though (different group altogether I know). 😛 More interesting would be a cage fight between Batman and Rorschach. Especially if you strip Batman of gizmos and just rely on hand-to-hand fighting skills. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/12 "2009-08-06T18:16:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > More interesting would be a cage fight between Batman and Rorschach. Especially if you strip Batman of gizmos and just rely on hand-to-hand fighting skills. Batman would destroy him. Bruce isn’t above fighting dirty, if need be, and he’s in better shape than Rorschach. Walter’s no slouch, but he doesn’t take as good care of himself as Wayne does. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/13 "2009-08-06T18:20:06Z")
Who’s better prepared? Batman or Ozymandias? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/14 "2009-08-06T18:21:20Z")
Batman. Ozymandias just does his Xanatos Gambit, but Batman always knows how to beat every foe and obstacle. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/15 "2009-08-06T18:22:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Batman would destroy him. Bruce isn’t above fighting dirty, if need be, and he’s in better shape than Rorschach. Walter’s no slouch, but he doesn’t take as good care of himself as Wayne does. Yeah but Rorschach has that psycho edge. Come to think of it Batman has a bit of psycho edge to him too but Rorschach really embraces it which I think lends him some “crazy energy” (for lack of a better term). I agree Batman would probably win. He is better trained overall I believe and in about as peak physical condition as a human can be. Would still be fun to see. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/16 "2009-08-06T18:28:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Xanatos Gambit a good band name! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/17 "2009-08-06T18:44:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yeah but Rorschach has that psycho edge. Yeah. It’s a shame that Batman doesn’t usually go up against psychos. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/18 "2009-08-06T18:53:20Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Yeah. It’s a shame that Batman doesn’t usually go up against psychos. :rolleyes: Sure he goes up against psychos all the time but usually being psycho is his opponent’s Achilles heel. Their psychoness makes them the bad guy but also inconsistent and able to be manipulated which Batman uses to his advantage. Rorschach channels his psycho into his fighting. It clearly propels him and enables him. Rather than being a drawback it is essential to his success thus he derives benefit from it while fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/19 "2009-08-06T19:04:43Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > On the other hand the Watchmen have a godlike being capable of vaporizing matter just by looking at it. Of which the Justice League have several. Ignoring the fact that that description is an entirely valid description of Superman, the Martian Manhunter, Power Girl, and several other members, and going with those whose powers are vaguely equivalent to Doc’s, they have: Zatanna - mystic, capable of doing pretty much anything she can articulate (backwards). Dr Fate - several of them, also mystics, also capable of doing pretty much anything. Firestorm - power set very similar to Doc’s - a little more limited, but not significantly - almost limitless control over matter and energy, minor pre-/post-cognition, depending who’s in the merge, potentially genius intellect, etc. Various lesser mystics whose limits I’m not sure of (Jason Blood, Silver Sorceress). Auxiliary members include: Resurrection Man - literally cannot stay dead, potentially has any imaginable power - has, at least once, ended up with powers similar to Doc’s. Multi-Man (counted as Auxiliary, as he was a member of the JLAntarctica, which was pretty much a joke) - same as RM. Sargon the Sorcerer - yet another mystic. Not all of them are currently alive - the Silver Sorceress is dead, the current Sargon and Dr Fate have never joined the League (though Zatanna can contact both), and only one of the two Firestorms are still around. Still, any incarnation of the League is liable to have at least one person who can screw reality pretty damn good. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535/20 "2009-08-06T19:07:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I wonder if this is a case of an immovable object meeting an unstoppable force. While Dr. Manhattan is not portrayed as omnipotent he does seem effectively immortal. The Spectre can just send him to heaven, if he wishes. The Spectre is omnipotent. Hell, Johnny Thunder’s Thunderbolt could make sure there never _was_ a Dr. Manhattan (and has been shown to do the equivalent). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-vs-watchmen-who-would-win/505535.md?page=2)